67HEAVEN

For those around here who question the original 1/4 mile times of old big block Corvettes, keep this in mind........

The factory original tires on my car in 1967 were the same size as the FRONT tires on this wheel-standing Corvette. That's right.....the front tires! - 7.75x15" bias-plies - not even radials - on 6 inch wide rims!



Ever wonder where the term "Up In Smoke" came from?
:D

StrayDog

Enough said,my 66 is a driver 427.......390 hp cam 308 gears 9.5 comp ratio..........13.7 @ 102 MPH , an acutual time...not a magizine article from 30 years ago......2.6 60 foot times with 205 X 65 R15 tires , this also reflects poor traction............ IF i had drag radials 13.2 would be possible...........................I am not afratd to drive & enjoy.remember "time wax in wastin time drivin" The Dog. :seeya

Vetterodder

Our IRS didn't favor launches either. I've seen BB Vettes get clobbered at the drags by cars they could cream in a rolling start street race. As for what were the fastest cars at the strip back in the muscle car days, I was there. As already posted, many of the "legends" were based upon a perfectly setup car that could perform way beyond what could be bought off the lot. A car that was set up for the drags and driven by a good driver might run a full second quicker than the same car that wasn't set up and had an inexperienced driver. It was a real hoot watching newbies that brought out their new "baddest car of the month" and see their expressions when they got their clocks cleaned by a much "lesser" car.

To this day, my favorite was a match up between a new Hemi RoadRunner and `66 Mustang. The Mustang was a dedicated stock class racer that was trailored in but wasn't a sponsored race car and looked like most other `66's. 271hp 289, 4.88's, slicks, and every trick in the book. It's owner was a regular at the grudges so he can tune it for the "real" races the next day. He was also one of those guys that wasn't afraid to lend a tool or advise. It was a busy night so, unless you knew how to pick your race, you just got paired with whoever happened to be in the other lane. The Mustang's driver didn't give a hoot about the race, he was sorting out his launch after some mods and hadn't made a full run all night. Both cars are next to go when the Hemi driver makes a snide remark about what a waste of gas or something. The stang runs a 12.80, the Hemi runs a 14.10. The Hemi driver stops at the pits only long enough to pick up his buddy and no one ever sees him again :)

396 RAT

:cool:
Had to throw that in.
Have had a 65 271hp Fastback for 18 yrs.
(even with the 306hp Cobra kit installed in 65),
I do not expect anywhere near the 12's. But its
a cool story. (and they are faster than people think)
You never really know who is who,
so its best to always be humble.....................
BTW that engine did very well in Cobras, and GT 40's too.
Won at LeMans......... I think.......
:yesnod:





[Modified by 396 RAT, 9:54 PM 5/18/2002]

05blkbeauty

I just sold my 1980 Malibu,(nice street car), 357ci with 268 extreme energy comp cam, headers and 750 holley. It would run 13.40's at best with a 2.0 60 ft. I have ridden in a 67 427 Vette several times and will tell you the Vette would blow my Malibu into the weeds- no comparison- the owner to my knowledge never took it to the drag strip, it was a tri-power car, but I'm sure it would well into the 12's, even with the pathetic stock tires!

1974purchase

with a 4.11 and running a 780 cfm holley four barrel instead of tri-power

62Jeff

After a decade of peaceful slumber, a thread is awakened......

jim lockwood

I hadn't seen it before. Good stuff. I'm glad it's been brought back.

MikeM

All of you guys have overlooked the REAL FIRST MUSCLE CAR put out by Detroit. It was the 1962 Chevy II. Chevrolet offered a kit to install the 327/360 FI engine in the car along with a BW four speed and dual exhaust. Also allowing a dealer credit for the OEM 4-6 cylinder and transmission.

These cars would run right off the bat in the high 13's, low 14's with the little skinny tires and closed exhaust. Easily run mid 13's with just tires (no gear change, no open exhaust) and mid 12's with tires, gear and headers.

Mine was a '65 model, L-84 with headers, gear and tires. 440's, 396 chevelles, Novas, Cobra Jets were a piece of cake. I don't recall getting beat by any of them. I tried to get a guy to race one time in a street hemi but he declined.

The 427 Stingrays? If you caught a newbie driving and both of you on street tires and exhaust, he'd usually spin enough I could get a little run on him and it was all over in the 1/4 mile. But, you better get on the brakes after the 1/4 'cause he was a'comin'

The problem with yesterday's muscles cars in street trim has already been explained. They had no tires (traction), a restrictive exhaust and usually no rear gear and that just killed them off the line where it is all important.

If you put most any of those BB's on the track and raced them against the SB's, they'd win most every time.

The key here is in street trim and I'd be surprised if any BB Corvette ever ran faster than mid/high 13's in street trim in the low/mid 100's mph.

63Corvette

Many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away........
On Sunday, I went to a dragstrip in Conroe, near Houston. I had not run at a dragstrip before, ran 13.97 on street tires. On this day there was the 427 Fairlane, "Wickersham Ford National Record Holder" driven by an older gentleman with the requisite "gold chain". He ran Mid 12 second times on slicks, but the door was painted to indicate that he held the record in A Stock with a 12.64 second quarter. As it happened, on the next day (Monday) I happened to be driving down Kirby Drive in Houston with my wife, when I stopped at the light with Bissonnet. The SAME Wickersham Ford car...without slicks (and driver...with his girl) pulled up beside me, and reved his engine. When the light changed................I left him!

SupremeDeluxe

I have not yet done a comprehensive tune on my new 435 (quick distributor curve job and carb rebuild), but with just basic calibration and a mix of race fuel and 93 Shell, it already walks away from my well-sorted L-68. L-68 had a M20 and 3.36, L-71 has M21 and 3.70. With some tuning, it will be an absolute bear.

A few years ago I got the itch to go fast on the street with a 2002 Z06 (H/C/I on a stock short block), and that was FAST. 467 RWHP and violent as hell. It loped harder than my L-71 and sounded much meaner. Now a mild C6 Z06 or stock ZR1 would blow that car away.

Bottom line is...new technology cannot be beaten by carbs and distributors in a street car. But no matter how much technology evolves, nothing will be as cool as a solid-lifter big block midyear.

SBR

Bottom line is...new technology cannot be beaten by carbs and distributors in a street car. But no matter how much technology evolves, nothing will be as cool as a solid-lifter big block midyear.[/QUOTE]
If you want to go really fast, the new technology is the way to go. I myself prefer the old solid lifter BBs, they are and will always be timeless.

Donny Brass

12.07 @ 111mph

AmericanPie

Does anybody know what kind of times the stock 390 and 400 HP 427's turned? I don't remember ever reading a road test on them; all the mags were so enamored with the L71's and L72's. It would seem they would be respectable in a street car given their considerable torque if not all-out HP.

capevettes

If you want to go really fast, the new technology is the way to go. I myself prefer the old solid lifter BBs, they are and will always be timeless.[/QUOTE]

My heart is with the old big blocks. But my C6 Z06 will walk away from my old big block like it's standing still.

427/390 66, 67,68 and 69 ran high 13's on average in stock form depending on driver skill, auto/4 speed, tires etc. C6 Z06 will run mid 11's at about 125 MPH in stock form. They break the tires loose right into 3rd gear.

63Corvette

14 seconds flat at 102mph.....brand new with zero "prep".

DansYellow66

Back then the Corvette and Cobra were not really classified or compared as Muscle Cars. They were more in the Sports Car or Supercar category.

I don't believe the 69 Cuda came with a Hemi or 440 6-pack except for the select few Hemi Darts/Baracudas that were sold as basically stripped racers with lightweight components, no accessories, etc.

TCracingCA

The same lists have been circulating over and over with no adjustments or consideration of prep etc. Just talking 1960 cars.
1. Hemi Cuda's and Darts- Cuda better aero, Dart slightly lighter weight so they are close in specs for slightly different reasons but these were not sold for the street, but just a few ended up with registration. So they count. Limited production Tuner. Thus if we include Tuner specials- then all Yenko's Baldwins Dana's Royal Bobcats Grand Spaulding count and have to be factored. The best times for these cars were on slicks. Street tires 11sec car maybe high 10 good day.
2. ZL-1 Corvette, two or three got out the door to the public. These were highly tuned, headers etc. but factory done.

Going forward. We have to be careful of the actual Cobra model to throw on the list.. The 12.2 car was not a street car, but originally a Comp Car that became a S/C model and there was only 31 built of this type. Basically those were the fast ones with the side oiler. A 428 was a dog unless it got the side pipes and some breathing. And the 289 FIA or USRRC tuned track cars ( the special ones with the Webers) with the right rear diff could slay alot of stuff out there because of weight.
Cars like the Chevelle LS-6 was a tuned car (a ringer). Throw that in with the overall family- like with 442 W-30 excluding or including the Hurst cars (tuner again), 455 Stage 1 or GSX and others. I personally think a L-89 Nova could smoke any of these. Super lite weight and power! This is the Mopar 440-6 six pack Chevy equivalent! The Camaro wasn't as lite and could not get as much tire. Thus the Camaro was slower than the mid weights because the tires went up in smoke, where the heavier cars hooked up better and ran quicker. But then you had the Z-28, but after all of the low end issues that actually helped launch, once the revs were up into the power band with good shifting and the lighter weight it could pull back in on alot of lumpy big blocks.
Corvette in general were limited by tires so finally in 1969 they got decent. And with open chamber heads, headers etc. and with the right rear end, they are low 12 all day and could be tuned to 11 range. Some special ones could put down low 11 tuned. The tri carb should be able to better the Holley 4 barrel, and this was only because of the prior to 1969 tire problems. If the tire was better prior to 1969, then a tuned 4 barrel could be launched, but because of that it was limited, so the progressive carb helped launch if you worked into the throttle only. A tri carb has to be driven properly to get the benefit. Etc. The 1966 car was tuned, but basically a true representation of what a 427 big block with headers and moderate tuning could do. It was typical of the breed. But a 1969 car with L-71 or L-88, or L-89 could take it apart unless the lighter weight C2 got lucky and hooked up with the skinny tires and then weight to power took over slightly and it was not or would not be very far behind and occasionally in front on a very good day.
Cudas prior to 70 had no decent tires in the rear in stock trim (excluding Hurst cars), these had no wheel wells and could not fit headers very easily. The Hurst Hemis were pretty cut up and fitted specials with tires and headers. The 1970 model was tamed down with the hydaulic cam, and just hooked up good is what produced the numbers. But the 1969 Super Bees /Roadrunners etc. had solid lifters the baddest engines, slightly skinner tires, lighter weight than the 1970. I think low 13 all day and mid to high 12's tuned and driven.
Get the point.
Everyone just picks there favorites without facts to back them up. Everyone needs to get off of that. My favorite car is the quickest because it is this or that is getting old.

TCracingCA

As I think of something or have a moment of free time. I might edit my input instead of having a fractured input that is broken up into individual replies. Thus if you have input or observation, please reread what I might have added that might cause you to quote or reply to my input. I wish on topics such as this. Each guy interested would stick to one reply with additions and edits so all practical observations from each of us are condensed and easy to follow view and reply to.

DansYellow66

Don't forget some of the Pure Stock Musclecar Drag dominators in recent years - the 68 Pontiac Ram Air II Firebird, and 70 Buick 455 Stage II GS to name a couple.