Ed-

I'm quoting the present NCRS definitions, not my own personal biases. Cases 1, 2 and 3 would be considered 'restoration' as the same casting number and (approximate) date is being installed and the car returned to a former state. Case number 4 is clearly counterfeit since the car was not born a big block. Another example of counterfeit would be changing a base engine car into a fuelie- even if the original block was kept but stamped to reflect the higher HP.

Them's the definitions whether we agree or not. The big message here is that these definitions have little to do with Flight Judging. The rules give NO slack to 'restoration engines' during judging. A restamp is a restamp. No half points for good effort.

My own feeling is that judging is no excuse to restamp. There's just not enough points tied up in the pad to make it worthwhile. If an owner really needs to have that blue ribbon and every last point counts, then redeck and restamp but add the word 'restamp' somewhere on the pad. There will not be a deduct for that reason.

I double-dog-dare somebody to do that.

 

Good explanation short and correct

 

It is the seller down the line who needs the protection (both monetarily and legally) from the people who restamp today. Even if the current owner advertizes the car as restamped NOM, if the next owner dies and the car is sold - nobody would know. That's why it's best not to restamp these engines with what could ultimately be used for fraudulent purposes.

Of course there are people you can go to who can confirm if your engine block is original based on the broach lines - but that costs too.

 

So if a NOM car is purchased and has a restamped engine installed it is now a restored car?
Doesn't this "restored car" have a greatly reduced value over a "born with" engine?
What if the buyer of a NOM car only bought it with the intention to "restore" and resell?
When someone, who had the work done, offers a "restored engine" car for sale, shouldn't they disclose that fact?

 

Mike good points that true !,I wonder if there's room for RE stamp on the pad.

 

Henry,

It sounds like you have a desire to return your car to what it was like when originally built. As a few people have mentioned, one of the main focuses of NCRS is that type of activity. I think before you spend any money on an engine, you should sign up for both the National NCRS and a local Chapter. Get to know the people, ask a lot of questions, and get involved in the judging process as an NCRS Judge. You don't need any experience to get started, other than the desire to learn about these great old cars and meet some wonderful people.

www.ncrs.org

One of the first questions I ask new Corvette owners or new NCRS members is: "What is your goal with the car?" If you want to have a highly original appearing car, then there is a path you can take to get there. If you want to enter your car in the NCRS judging process to learn more about your car and improve its originality, condition and operational function, there is a pathway for that as well.

Once you have been exposed to the different paths you can go down by owning a classic Corvette (daily driver, factory-style restoration to varying levels, or some place in between), then you can align the different options with what YOU want to do with the car.

Where owners have trouble is they have an expectation for owning their car that is very different than the path they are on. An example. Someone has an EXTREMELY original '64 coupe but just wants to drive the car. They have an example that should probably be preserved and brought through the highest levels of judging. But all they want is a fun car to drive. I'm not saying you can't drive a car like that, but sometimes there is a conflict there.

That's it for now. Feel free to send me a message if you have other questions. I'm more than happy to help.

 

FOUR questions here.

1. YES it would still be considered a restored car.

2. YES, a restored car with a NOM would have a greatly reduced value. However, it is worth what someone will pay for it.

3. This happens all the time. Restorers will buy projects and fix them up for resale. Even with NOMs. In fact some restorers will deck the block erasing the stamp pad in the process and restamp the block with the correct engine suffix and VIN. This would still be called "numbers matching" even though it is NOT the original motor.

4. A restorer SHOULD disclose that they have restamped the motor especially if it is a NOM. If they KNOWINGLY are selling the car and advertising it as the orginal motor when it is not it is fraud. If they KNOWINGLY sell the car with a NOM restamped car and call it "numbers matching" it is a slimy but they may not really be committing fraud. Some still may call it fraud though. It is up to the buyer to determine authenticity of any car they purchase.

In summary when purchasing a classic car one should always have an inspection from a qualified person. One that knows the cars inside and out and has a good sense to smell out a restamp. One could end up losing a lot of money if they are not careful.

 

Henry, What is the build date of your car?? It is on the trim tag. Dave in NH

 

No, it isn't. The build date of the BODY is on the TT.

 

And if it's a St. Louis body, the car's build date is the next day.

 

Right. If it's a Ionia body, the final build could be more than a week later.

 

\Henery-Trim and vin tag look like this located under glove compartment

 

My 65's numbers match and you can take that mean the engine is original to the car. I don't think I am in a 10% category either.

 

So is the build date of the block determined buy the body date or the cars birthday?? Are they not the same??? Dave

 

The block date depends on the day it was cast. Then it was machined and stamped with a date. They both need to be pior to the date on the trim tag

 

Neither and no.

The engine could have been cast and built months before the body was assembled and the car completed.

 

....................up to six months before is "acceptable", to account for anomalies, but in most cases, same day to four days before. So, if you're gonna stamp an engine, better to pick a couple days prior to final build.


There are THREE significant dates:
1. Body build
2. Engine build and dates of every other component and assembly in the car
3. Final build


First two must always precede or coincide with final date (build date).

 

Dont forget the little detail of some people choosing restamp assembly code dates that were "impossible," i.e. a Sunday or a holiday...

 

Not necessarily. If you have an A.O. Smith body, it's not unusual to have an engine whose assembly date (engine plant stamp) is a day or two after the body build date on the trim tag (it took a week to ten days for an Ionia-built body to get from Ionia to St. Louis).

 

Of course. It's important to have a calendar pertaining to your desired year available.

Oh.......................and don't forget any strikes and job actions that may apply as well.