TCracingCA

I have to say that, because even thou my Father had Corvettes since the late 1950's, I wanted to save up to get my own Ford GT-40 there for awhile, until I saw the McLaren M6 GT street car.

Thanks, I have had like the book "Chevrolet Racing Fourteen Years of raucous Silence since first release in 1972 within days of being published. It was my birthday present given to me! Since I have read hundreds of books and many racer biographies getting bits and pieces, had friends that were car magazine writers from the high end ones, worked at the car Museum in San Diego, engaged a large number of "industry people, racers etc. to piece this stuff together over 40+ years of being a fan/enthusiast, etc. I thought I would do some sharing!

Little clues like the stickers that ended up on the McLarens and Chaparrals were product branding from the Manufacturer """Chevrolet""". Guys like John Mecom their stories should be known, but surprisingly aint. I touched on some of this in other threads, but he was cut of the same as a Briggs Cunningham type of guy that had some of the top talent (like AJ Foyt, etc.) during his stint with his racing interest. He was an oil guy, that went to the Middle East and developed the industry there befriending guys like King Hussein who was really into cars and built the Hussein 426 hemi Can Am car, etc. His wide array of interests pulled him away from front line team Ownership but he won the Indy 500 with Lotus/""Ford"" and Graham Hill as he was creating the New Orlean Saints Football team. In the modern he was the backer that led to good ole Danica getting to the big time. He has stayed connected to racing to some extent, but I would call 1961-67 his peak interest years. Also remember little clues like Penske was one of Jim Halls drivers. None of what i wrote here is technically in print as a whole, but in bits and pieces from interviews or biographies or newspaper articles, magazines, etc.

1970's Chevrolet went more in the direction of NASCAR with the greats of the era, and I would call it staying in touch with other motorsports through guys like Greenwood, Dekon, Porterfield, Grumpy and other Pro stock guys, etc.., etc. etc.

The story of GM/Chevrolet Parts Supply is unwritten, what happened in 1964 was GM was called out in a major way for having poor parts support for their products! Then all hell broke loose!

mickthefish

In the UK a lot of the 074 heads which were in the Drag cars of the time , I'm sure were from the ''backdoor'' counter .I have a couple of sets a 69 dated pair and 72. But to touch back to the L88 raced in UK ? For a long time the rumors are of the Guldstrand brokered which was covered in the Corvette news Jun/Jul 73 which in France now and the Green Welsh one. Still please keep the knowledge coming and I for one will fuel you from over the pond. Mick

TCracingCA

The McLaren operation usually returned the cars to England. Some of the former factory cars were sold off mostly to American racing operations or cars fielded by American Teams, but I am sure some of those parts stayed over there. I have never really taken too much interest in who and what was running in the European Interseries. I do remember the dominate 917/10s and 917/30s, but I should check into Chevrolet powered cars that ran Europe in Group 7 competition during that early 70's era. The McLaren daughter is who I believe I was talking to a number of years back, and I traded some emails back and forth on the history of her Dad's Company.

I also have every Corvette News from like 1960 through till the end. I found I just hate scanning things, time consuming process or working with uploads is a pain. Therefore I keep having intentions to work on such, but then I get limited on time and a book can sit in my livingroom with info, that I just don't feel like getting to. Do you have that Corvette News issue and need a copy? I definitely would have it. I couldn't find my 68-??? Brooklands and think because it is C3, my Father might have lifted it from my book collection. The Motor mags and other European magazines are in a box buried in behind my El Camino where I can't get to those. I put the Road & Tracks, Hot Rods, Car Crafts, and other more typical magazines with European stuff out in the garage and I would have to climb over the car to get to those. In the hour and fourty five minutes that I played on the libraries equipment, I didn't come across per se an L-88 ad yet, but it was kind of fun viewing that old stuff.

I had out the Can Am built engine part numbers to see how many of those might have been shared with production engine builds. I got out my old birthday present "14 years Chevrolet Racing book" and was re-reading that and the Grand Sport stories.

Also I looked on Ebay to see what J-56 and L-88's were being sold, and didn't find the earlier small spindle braces, but just the later ones, but a set will turn up! I did see a run of views on those Fly Eye Air Cleaners. I was looking to see what the attachment bracket looked like, because that was the only piece missing on mine. The other one we have is at my Father's place, so I could go copy his. Those are like $200 asking for such, and stories of engine fires abound is what I was told, but Baldwin Motion, Nickey, Dana, Yenko and others liked this particular unit for the hood clearance.

I was on my lunch break yesterday out near Redondo Beach coming back from a work project and stopped in a library in Torrance and looked at old microfish reels of old 1960's/70's newspapers at the Classified Ads and Dealership ads from back in the day. I didn't find any L-88's for sale, but in like the little local newspaper the Daily Breeze were Dealership ads and classified with quite a number of Corvettes being sold. I found that each was listed with the license plate numbers in the advertisements on the used cars. I found even DANA Chevrolet and Mann Chevrolet small print ads for certain cars they were selling. Also discovered that DANA was only selling the 1968 Corvettes exclusively off of the High Performance lot and not at the primary dealership across and down the street. Therefore I put out a challenge for anyone viewing to see if your Library has old Dealership ads, newspapers, or Old Yellow Page Phone books and such for viewing and I would like to see if anyone can come up with an L-88 find in any advertising.

chgc267

Here are a few pictures of L88's from the Corvette National's in Rosemont, IL in 2013...there were 10 total...7 C2's & 3 C3's.

TCracingCA

I saved them from when they were first shared.

TCracingCA

I am real big on dates/time periods when I research, but alot of guys forget their importance.

There is a thread on the Mystery motors that I almost jumped into, commented but didn't.

OK Mystery Motor basics 101

Engineering began summer 1962 by Dick Keineth

Fall 62 Tested in a car at Indianapolis raceway Park

1st appeared at practice Jan 1963 for the Daytona 500 engines given to 5 teams
Junior Johnson/Ray Fox
G. Spencer/Ray Fox
Johnny Rutherford/Smokey Yunick
Rex White/Rex White Driver/Owner
Bubbar Farr/WH Harrison

The race was on Feb 24, but you had the 100 mile Qualifiers on Feb 16th which one was won by Junior Johnson the first race and the second qual race by Johnny Rutherford, with Rex White second (and we brushed on his install of a 427 in the Grand Sport for the 1965 Sebring).

So the American Challenge Cup GT Race, during this time Nascar was trying to enter road Racing also! Nascar sanctioned Road Race using the banking was also part of Speed Week) This was run at Daytona on Feb 16th with the two 427 Corvettes, not to be confused with the next day event Feb 17th 1963, the 3-Hour Continental that would become the Daytona 24 Hours race. So go figure two 427's were run in advance of the Daytona 500 in Corvettes. Therefore I would technically call this more testing!!!!!!!! Qualification races for the Cup GT event was done on Feb 10th and one Corvette driven by J. Johnson#3 (Silver) and one by R. White #4 (White), go figure!!!!! In this qualification, there were two #3 cars and two #4 cars which has caused alot of confusion with these cars! Johnson #3 427 silver, Hooper #3 327 blue, White #4 427 white, and Krause #4 327 silver!!! I think in the modern these might still be mixed up by the Secret Society, but I don't really study Coupes! But I am going to look up the early find articles on #47 (because the comments didn't know what he had and ""reunited"" with the engine??? I would think Krause was more inclined to take his #4 car home (the Z-06 327 one!). Krause in the Continental drove his assigned #4 Z-06 327. Mickey prepped both silver cars the same is what i believe, except for the engines that were dropped! The Hooper car was the former Riverside winner! The Mickey Thompson silver cars were not at the initial Riverside!!!

The first Contential was run in 1962 where Gurney rolled with the starter assist across the finish line in the California Arciero #96 car! This 1963 Contential featured 12 Corvettes (I think 12 Z-06's), but the two 427's were not run in this third race based on FIA homologation!

Hint hint Rutherford and White entered in Daytona 500, Rutherford and White qualifying the 427 Corvettes for the upcoming Feb 16th event, but the cars handed over to Billy Krause #3 (silver car number #3, but also in the same race was Hooper #3 but a blue 327) and Rex White #4 (did 38 laps and retired, but then Mickey himself jumped in) for the GT race. The Daytona 500 qualifiers were run this same day as the American Challenge Cup!

Hint hint hint-- Engines got out the door Jan 1963 and made it into the hands of the teams for the Daytona 500 race. Chevrolet racing ban reinforced latter part of Jan 1963, so Chevy cheated not making it to the required 50 engines because the racing programs were shut down prior to completion of the batch and they then had to use some trickery to not get caught at Daytona with the engines that did get out the door. So they moved engines after inspections done for one Team out the back as the inspectors left out front to the next outfit, so those could be counted unknowly again by the inspections, so they came up with 50??? Bet they didn't, but the inspectors were convinced enough to let them run. One engine was handed to Holman & Moody later, but initially two were made available to other Competitors (technically one for Ford and one for the Mopar guys was the offer)! They were to be picked up at a local Chevrolet Dealership to further give the appearance of production, but neither Ford nor Mopar went to get them!!!!! Oh ya, the install into the Corvettes was another smoke and mirror tactic to give the appearance of Production!!!!!! The Nascar guys later found out they were duped!

Enough parts released for 42-44 engines, but only 26 ever assembled. Only 9 traced in the modern! Dyno test got 620hp prior to 1963 Daytona. All cast between August 1962 and January 1963. best article on the engine was may 1963 hot Rod magazine!

The Mark III was an attempt to design in a larger bore center, but that change would have been expensive, so none were ever produced.

mickthefish

TCR with all these parts and cars about , how can anyone keep track on them? That is unless in the same hands for near on 41 years, further more what of the ones which left USA and started racing aboard. Which brings me back to those original 20/80/116 L88
some many others using the H/D Parts may not have been true L88 don't you think?

TCracingCA

back to the Mark II's, at least 9 was the count back when I last read something on the subject in the more modern, but in this day, more could have been traced. How many all depends on how one counts them, but some of those Nascar teams kept going during that season, but there is enough written that they ran out of parts support for these.

I would assume that any parts that made it over there to Europe or engines would have been on a special ordered car, or a car or parts ordered by a Racer. I would say someone like Greder would have been familiar with the good stuff and was able to get it. and then others when the Power Books were released and the GM Performance catalogs.

emccomas

SO, correct me if I am wrong, going clockwise, and starting with the Lyndale Blue 67

Lyndale Blue convertible - 194677S118426
Black coupe - 194377S122014
#7 black convertible Delorenzo car - 194677S109097
#92 blue convertible, Dana car - 194677S117527
#9 blue coupe, LeMans car - 194377S113787
Silver coupe - 194377S110055
Silver convertible - 194677S115484

TCracingCA

I wish the Magazines were as thorough! Good job!

TCracingCA

My list as purely an enthusiast (No hidden agenda, no money motivation, no fame motivation)! Just what I have been able to piece together from researching the topic!

Prototype Green Coupe #194377-00-IT-EX.702
1st Car Delorenzo Racer #7 #109097 Known as the 1st one! Also shown in pictures in Nolands Book.
2nd Car Silver Coupe #110055
3rd Car Noland Restoration Book Car #110702
4th Car Yenko DX Racer #8 #112805
5th Car LeMans Racer #9 #113787
6th Car Silver Convertible #115484
7th Car Red on Red Coupe #115791
8th Car 12 Mile Red Coupe #116945
9th Car White Coupe #117055
10th Car Marina Blue Coupe #117076 Was a SCCA Racer also!
11th Car SCCA Racer #92 #117527
12th Car Maroon Convertible #118414
13th Car Lyndale Blue Convertible #118426
14th Car Sunfire Yellow Coupe #119136
15th Car White Coupe #120407
16th Car Daytona Racer #89 #121550
17th Car Hussein White Convertible Car #121558 Wrecked in the Country of Jordan
18th Car Black Coupe #122014
19th Car Red Convertible (Farris) #? 1970's The guy ran ads in Vette Vues to exchange pictures of his L-88, as an enthusiast.
20th Car Green on Green Coupe (Afrika) #? One of the earliest cars to come up for sale in Vette Vues in the 1970's

emccomas

19th Car Red Convertible (Farris) #? 1970's The guy ran ads in Vette Vues to exchange pictures of his L-88, as an enthusiast.

20th Car Green on Green Coupe (Afrika) #? One of the earliest cars to come up for sale in Vette Vues in the 1970's

Can you narrow the dates that these cars were advertised any further. I have a bunch of old Vette Vues magazines. Might be worth searching through.

TCracingCA

Actual copies of those ads! But that might have been the thread where I got mad and removed all of my posts. Most guys on here, know I do that sometimes. They are in the 1970's Vette Vues and off of the top of my memory around 1976-78 years and like a dummy, I didn't throw a copy of either into my new magic folder that is supposed to hold everything as I find things in my house! The Green car ran for like two or three issues, but the Farris guy ran his for quite sometime! His ad was that he would send any enthusiast a picture of his L-88, if you mailed him a picture back of your car! Naturally the Secret Society probably has chased this one down and beat on the door of him and his relatives! I have all of the Vette Vues except the first 6 issues! I guess they were late going to print with those and sent basically all six out at the same time to their new subscribers. We didn't subscribe in time to get those, but were subscribers for Volume 1, Issue #7.

As you can tell, I am behind on picture sharing-- haven't put up the L-88 with the L-88 air cleaner yet sitting on the wood dolly yet, nor the 1967 L-88 article from Corvette News. So I will add this request to the building scan/post project! I also see there are a lot of pictures available on the Mark II engines and the Indianapolis test vehicle etc., and other stuff like a side by side shot of two #4 Corvette cars racing together at Daytona

I am also surprised no one posted up the neat video with a bunch of L-88 cruising in downtown Carlisles! I don't know how to do video or add video or link to video. That is why I have the same slalom footage for my Father's car, because my Brother helped me with that one, or I would add more Home Movies!!! I know especially Corvette guys just love home movies!

emccomas

And while I am thinking about it, do we know the VINs of the 3 other L-88 cars that raced at Sebring in 1967

#8 Sunray DX car (Yenko / Morgan) - 122805
#4 Penski car (Welch / Wintersteen) -
#9 Or. Constanzo car (Costanzo / Guy / McClain) -
#69 Wilton T. Jowett car (Jowett Jr. / Mouat / Cardwell) -

63Corvette

I make the 1963 Stingray Corvettes which actually started the race from the picture above as:
#4 Bill Krause
#5 George Robinson
#9 Ralph Slayer
# (17-AJ Foyt)?
#10 Don Yenko
#11 Dick Thompson
#41 Robert Brown
#3 Doug Hooper
#1 Ed Cantrell
# (White #7 Jerry Grant)?
So........10 1963 Stingray Corvettes started this race, The 421 NASCAR Pontiac Tempest Won! All of these Corvettes were qualified ahead of the MUCH more expensive Ferrari 250 GTOs and All of the "Lightweight" Jaguars

emccomas

OK, some more info on the Marina Blue coupe..

From the April, 1979 issue of Vette Vues, page 26..

Purchased from Bast Chevrolet in Seaforth, NY. In April of 1979, owned by Barb Orford of Bramlea, Ontario, Canada. For sale, asking price $30,000.

VIN 194377S117076
Trim Tag Info: Style 125 S5606 - 67 437 976AA - Trim Std.

A copy of the "Corvette Order Copy" appears on this page as well.

emccomas

And the same issue of Vette Vues (page 14) discusses an ermine white roadster purchased by ________ of Kansas.

There is a note at the beginning of the article that the original owner's name is withheld due to pending legal action.

Is this possibly the white convertible identified by Noland Adams in his book. # 110702?

The cover of the April 1979 issue has a picture of either a black or green L-88 coupe owned at that time by Dr. Bill Miller of St. Louis.

I am assuming that this is the black coupe # 122014.

Thoughts?

emccomas

And found in the Sep and Oct, 1976 issues of Vette Vues (page 45 of Sep)

For Sale/Trade; RARE 1967 coupe, original factory L-88. Goodwood green, green interior, very clean, low mileage. Take late model coupe on trade. PH: 814-226-5035.

I do not see any reference to a person named Andy Affrica.

Ad does not appear after that, but the following ad appears in the Nov and Dec, 1976 issues of Vette Vues (pages 49 - Nov and 51 - Dec)

Full page ad for BUXBAUM AND DOUGLAS SPECIAL INTEREST CORVETTES, 103 Roosevelt Road, Villa Park, IL 60181 312-629-4344.

One of the cars listed in this ad reads as follows:

1967 Corvette Coupe, Green, green, 550 HP, 4 speed, side exhaust, New lacquer, $6800.00.

No idea if this is the Green, green L-88 car, but the same ad has a 67 435 convertible, 38K miles, for $6000.00

TCracingCA

The White one they are talking about is the #89 racer!!!!! That got pretty heated. Suddenly everyone figured out that it was probably worth something especially since the original engine was stored after only like 117 miles or something on it.

The Dr. Miller car is the Green Coupe Prototype.

The Noland car-- is an entry in the back of his 63-67 Restoration big white book where that serial number shows with an IT engine. Because the pictures in the book are all black and white, I can only assume which cars were used for the pictures. If they were in color, or someone that talks with him could get some info, it would help. I don't know if he is part of the Secret Society!!!!!

The black car has the red stinger and was set up with a drag race rear axle.

During the late 70's, for the creation of the Corvette Black Book and privately guys listed up ads for information and one guy did Drew did the survey on L-88's, but things were provided, but then it only got back out to selected few! If members of the Corvette community provide you with information that helps you learn about stuff like this, then it should be shared back or we should think about tar and feathering, but I know he is a forum participant and has chatted limitedly! Yes the Black Book was released and we are on revision number ????, but I have the very first one published which is nice for any collection.

TCracingCA

Yes #17 was Foyt!

I jumped on the band wagon with 12 listed in various books and you are right--- They shorted us by a couple!!!!! I think they assumed the 427 cars were in the race. But I bet they definitively tried to enter those two cars also, but it is obvious that they aren't in the field-- but that darn Pontiac cheater 421 is there, which was actually a 428!!!!!! They cheated also on the drag strip, and took those 421's out with the Royal Bobcat treatment!!!!!! Ringer! Foul! Cheat! That was a high profile embarrassment losing to that square/box sedan! I would assume Ferrari and Jaguar weren't in any hurry, because they normally assumed a lot of them Corvettes would break!!!!! I will have to get out my FIA Bible to see what the out come was for that race and how we faired.