Bleeding a new brake system?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 30
From: Alberta/Missouri....... depending when.
Bleeding a new brake system?
This is kind of off topic as this is related to my '64 GTO convertible that I had to do a frame replacement to...... you can read about it here.
http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/1964-gto...acement-38688/
I've got the car running and am just about ready to send it back to the shop for final paint, but I need to bleed the brakes.
The car has an entire new brake system (excluding single reservoir master cylinder). What is the best way to bleed the new lines? Will the system gravity bleed if I open the bleeders at each of the brake cylinders?
With a completely dry system can you do a conventional brake bleed (pump, hold, bleed)?
Thanks in advance.
Allan
http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/1964-gto...acement-38688/
I've got the car running and am just about ready to send it back to the shop for final paint, but I need to bleed the brakes.
The car has an entire new brake system (excluding single reservoir master cylinder). What is the best way to bleed the new lines? Will the system gravity bleed if I open the bleeders at each of the brake cylinders?
With a completely dry system can you do a conventional brake bleed (pump, hold, bleed)?
Thanks in advance.
Allan
Last edited by Al T; Aug 24, 2015 at 02:39 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
This is kind of off topic as this is related to my '64 GTO convertible that I had to do a frame replacement to...... you can read about it here.
http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/1964-gto...acement-38688/
I've got the car running and am just about ready to send it back to the shop for final paint, but I need to bleed the brakes.
The car has an entire new brake system (excluding single reservoir master cylinder). What is the best way to bleed the new lines? Will the system gravity bleed if I open the bleeders at each of the brake cylinders?
With a completely dry system can you do a conventional brake bleed (pump, hold, bleed)?
Thanks in advance.
Allan
http://www.gtoforum.com/f50/1964-gto...acement-38688/
I've got the car running and am just about ready to send it back to the shop for final paint, but I need to bleed the brakes.
The car has an entire new brake system (excluding single reservoir master cylinder). What is the best way to bleed the new lines? Will the system gravity bleed if I open the bleeders at each of the brake cylinders?
With a completely dry system can you do a conventional brake bleed (pump, hold, bleed)?
Thanks in advance.
Allan
Pump-hold-bleed will work, but it will take time, and you want to keep a sharp eye on the fluid level in the reservoir to make sure it doesn't run dry, or you get to start all over again.
Pressure bleeding (Motive Power Bleeder) will take you from a dry system to a fully bled system in less than ten minutes.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,545
Likes: 1,977
From: Temple Terrace Florida
brake bleed
My 65 GTO had drums on all four corners. I assume yours does also. I would start with bench bleeding the master cylinder. I would also adjust the shoes at each wheel until there is a slight drag and then slightly back off on the star adjuster. Fill the M/C and put the cap on. You can now gravity bleed the system or use the pump and hold method. With the pump and hold method, I like to start at the right rear, left rear, right front and left front. Keep an eye on the fluid level. If the system is completely dry, I would repeat the process until there are no bubbles in the tubing. I use clear tubing, a clothes pin (to hold the tubing in a plastic jar or bottle) and a coat hanger to hang the bottle or jar close to the wheel cylinder. Put a little brake fluid in the jar so as not to suck air back in the system. You clearly will not use as much fluid as you would on a vette caliper system. When done and the car is painted, post a picture of the goat. I love those A body cars. Jerry
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 17,571
Likes: 3,460
From: Fresno California
What Tampa Jerry said. Al, I've seen you on the GTO forum. You MUST bench bleed the master cylinder first, then gravity bleeding will work just fine. Just takes some time. But it's clean and easy. I bench bleed masters by reverse-filling them with a syringe. I fill the master about 1/3 level, then take a brake fluid filled syringe and inject brake fluid into one oultet port at a time, keeping the other port covered. You will get air bubbles in the master cyl. reservoir initially, replaced by a solid stream of brake fluid. Do the other port, and you are done. No need to pump, no messy power bleeder, none of that. Reverse bleed the master, hook the lines back up, and gravity bleed it from there, starting at the right rear. Go RR, LR, RF, and then LF. Should have an excellent pedal in very little time. Any residual brake fluid can be rinsed off the backing plates and suspension with plain water.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,934
Likes: 657
From: Norwalk ohio
2019 Corvette of the Year Winner
St. Jude Donor '15
If you want to bleed brakes and have a compressor handy, this is the greatest device I have ever had for bleeding brakes or even sucking any kind of fluids from anything....for instance oil! Cost $155 delivered from Summit racing, but I used it to suck all the fluid out of my model A street rod system as it was old and need refreshing.....this baby works and works great!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-8101
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-8101
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,934
Likes: 657
From: Norwalk ohio
2019 Corvette of the Year Winner
St. Jude Donor '15
Gravity bleeding won't work on a dry system.
Pump-hold-bleed will work, but it will take time, and you want to keep a sharp eye on the fluid level in the reservoir to make sure it doesn't run dry, or you get to start all over again.
Pressure bleeding (Motive Power Bleeder) will take you from a dry system to a fully bled system in less than ten minutes.
Pump-hold-bleed will work, but it will take time, and you want to keep a sharp eye on the fluid level in the reservoir to make sure it doesn't run dry, or you get to start all over again.
Pressure bleeding (Motive Power Bleeder) will take you from a dry system to a fully bled system in less than ten minutes.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 344
Likes: 50
From: Marietta GA
I have started bleeding with a syringe. I typically work alone so the pump method is out. Vacuum bleeding never seems to work well for me due to leakage around the bleeder.
Very Simple: After bench bleeding the master, simply fill a syringe with brake fluid and inject into the brake ports at the bottom of the master cylinder. Essentially pressure bleeding but without any compressors or other equipment. Of course, I bleed one wheel at a time with a hose going into a filling cup to keep the hose submerged. Very quick and clean. I believe the CPP cite has some articles on this method. I've done it on everything from GM dual and single masters, Ford dual and single masters and Mopar dual masters. As long as you can access the port from above you're good to go. Just a thought.
Very Simple: After bench bleeding the master, simply fill a syringe with brake fluid and inject into the brake ports at the bottom of the master cylinder. Essentially pressure bleeding but without any compressors or other equipment. Of course, I bleed one wheel at a time with a hose going into a filling cup to keep the hose submerged. Very quick and clean. I believe the CPP cite has some articles on this method. I've done it on everything from GM dual and single masters, Ford dual and single masters and Mopar dual masters. As long as you can access the port from above you're good to go. Just a thought.
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
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Army
I've never bench bled a master cylinder and the pump-and-bleed method will get the job done in 20 minutes on a fresh system. Although getting wifey to take orders in the cockpit is almost as much trouble as buying or building all those do-dads above...
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 290
From: Limerick Pa, Saint James City Fl
Bench bleeding works well if you are replacing master cyl only on a car whose system is not air bound already. After bench bleeding install mc but don't tighten lines, have someone push peddle to floor slowly and hold to purge the lines, tighten lines and you don't have to bleed the rest of system. Chip
Jerry
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 30
From: Alberta/Missouri....... depending when.
Thanks for all the responses. When I disassembled the car I twisted closed the brake line at the MC so there should be no need to bench bleed it. When I pump the brake I do start getting pedal after a bit so I'm going to just try a conventional brake bleed first and see how that goes.
Thanks again.
Allan
Thanks again.
Allan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 322
From: palm springs ca
Well,
I built and have a few bleeders and found that (for me and all that borrow them) that bleeding from the calipers/drums to the master cylinder works great. you can only use between 15 & 20 PSI or you will squeeze the bubbles.
I attach the line, open the bleeder, turn the valve and visit the master cylinder with a squeeze bulb to remove the rising fluid. If you have help it is much faster. Like I said this works best for me and was a easy build finding a used tank from a A/C shop or bug control people.
Dom
I built and have a few bleeders and found that (for me and all that borrow them) that bleeding from the calipers/drums to the master cylinder works great. you can only use between 15 & 20 PSI or you will squeeze the bubbles.
I attach the line, open the bleeder, turn the valve and visit the master cylinder with a squeeze bulb to remove the rising fluid. If you have help it is much faster. Like I said this works best for me and was a easy build finding a used tank from a A/C shop or bug control people.
Dom
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Fresno California
Again, Al, if you have some pedal, you are on your way. As a professional, I stopped using power bleeders over 25 years ago. Messy, complex, and simply not needed. You can: remove the MC cap and loosen the RR bleeder and get a cup of coffee and sit back and watch for it to start dripping, or have your buddy/wife/whomever push the pedal down and hold it while you crack the bleeder. Very easy for amateurs to re-introduce air into the lines this way, though, through faulty technique.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 380
From: Waltham Ma.
If you bench bleed the master first then the brakes will gravity bleed, therefor not requiring the assistance of another person. If you have assistance then you don't need to bleed the master although the system will bleed quicker if the master is already bled. It's best to start bleed the wheell farthest from the master, RR, LR, RF, then LF. These older systems are very basic so there's no need to buy a brake bleeder. I've been working on cars for over 45 years and have never used a brake bleeder and some of the newer cars can be very tricky to bleed. Many of the newer ABS systems must be bled in a crisscross pattern.
Last edited by biggd; Aug 25, 2015 at 01:44 PM.
Race Director
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From: Fresno California
And some new ABS cars, like Hondas, need a special actuator tool to cycle the modulator valve to get the brakes bled in a very exact sequence of events. Not the case with these old cars. I agree that there is no need for a power bleeder....just normal gravity bleed or pump bleed procedure.