I'm obviously not a C2 owner. My question is how are they authenticated. For example, how can you prove that your 427/435 didn't actually start out as a 327. Not everyone has tank stickers, right? And I've heard that build sheets have been forged. Why does Chevy not release its production records?

 

Becouse Chevy does not have documents. Clear and simple. No group authenticates a car. A select few people will though. Lots and lots of homework is needed

 

A. Get a Black Book
B. Only '67's had tank stickers.
C. They don't exist anymore.

Gary

 

Generally, you can't, with a few rare exceptions.

I would say maybe 30% of the BB cars around today started with BB engines and maybe half of those have the original motor.

Doug

 

When I can't see out of rear view mirror I know my '63 SWC is authentic. Hard to fake it! begee22

 

Even if Chevrolet had the records, I doubt they'd want to release them.

Considering how many big blocks, and fuelies, and otherwise rare cars, have been fabricated over the years, they could be opening a real can of worms. Releasing that info would put them right in the middle of it too, as they'd likely become witnesses in every legal battle involving a bogus car!

As far as "authenticating" a car, short of a paper trail back to the day the car was built, the best anyone can do is make an educated guess. There are a handful of true experts, such as Al Grenning, that can give you a little more than an educated guess, but Al won't authenticate a car for anyone but the car's owner.

Al has a library of slides of original stamp pads, allowing him to authenticate an engine stamp, by comparing it to the anomalies found in other stampings from the same day of production. He also has Chevrolet zone and dealer codes, allowing him to authenticate tank stickers. And yes, the vast majority of tank stickers out there, in particular those on 67 big blocks, are bogus.

 

Pontiac will authenticate your Pontiac for you. Some years anyway. I think Chevrolet of Canada can too.

For my part, if it has matching authentic parts on it the way any of them left the factory, fine with me.

Better to see that than all the repop parts on these blue ribbon repomobiles.

 

Thanks for your responses. The reason I ask the question is because I was talking with a friend about this issue, and he works at a classic car dealership. So, does GM really not have records or just doesn't want to release them because they dont want to be involved in legal issues? I think Pontiac released all its records. It seems that Chevy could protect themselves by simply saying that its records are not to be used for authentication and they make no claim to accuracy. It would be funny to see the $&&?! storm that would ensue if they did release them!

 

Folks have been hunting for any Chevy docs for the last 40 odd years. And no one has come up with anything. Some of the past workers at St. Louis has stated when GM closed the plant EVERYTHING went into a dumpster. Pontiac did not build near as many cars as Chevy did.

 

The difference is that Pontiac and GM of Canada, like Ford and Chrysler, have made those records available for many years. It's always been easier for buyers and sellers of those brands, to authenticate a car. If Chevrolet were to release those records, after all these years, it could create a real sh*t storm within the hobby.

As Nowhere Man said, people have been searching for those records forever. I seem to recall that at one point, Chevrolet actually assigned a crew or allowed a group of outsiders, to comb through their archives, in search of the records.

 

It seems a lot of the older NCRS members have worked for a GM division of one or another and have a lot of very neat records or drawings of most parts of these cars. You would think that one of them would have contacts high enough to come up with something by now. The fact that the only thing they found is the production date and shipping records should tell you there's not much GM is hiding

 

I don't know all the details, but as a Pontiac guy, I can tell you that Pontiac intended to destroy all their records, when a private party bought them. He has since been offered $$ from GM for the records so that they can be disposed of, and he refused.....At this point, someone else is in charge of PHS, but it's a private individual, NOT GM, as GM does not care about this stuff very much...(look at all the destroyed motorama cars, etc. )

 

GM could care less if someone managed to come up with those old records (which would fill the Rose Bowl); Jim Perkins commissioned a no-holds-barred search for those build records when he was a GM Vice President and General Manager of Chevrolet, and nothing was ever found (a fellow Chevrolet employee and good friend of mine headed up the search project for Perkins). GM would have ZERO liability of any kind if the records were found and released - not their problem.

 

That was 60 years ago. GM cares very much about their history now a days. They've made every effort to find, restore, and collect samples of everything they've made, and to preserve as many of their cars as possible. They've even created the GM Heritage Center, to restore, preserve and display old dream cars and production cars.

Years ago, GM looked at their history differently. The Motorama cars were just props, or display material. Most weren't functioning vehicles. Even the few that did run, weren't intended to be running and driving cars. Most were made up of one of a kind, and hand made parts, that weren't really designed to stand up to the rigors of highway usage. It probably made more sense to GM to destroy them, then take a chance that they'd end up on public roads. Even back then, there were liability issues, that the automakers had to worry about.

All of the automakers regularly destroyed old dream cars. The Lincoln Futura probably only survived, to later become the first TV Batmobile, because Ford had lent it out to be used in the movie "It Started With A Kiss"? Chrysler built 55 Turbine cars, for testing by the public. When the program was over, they destroyed all but nine of them. Six had their engines disabled and were donated to museums, and three running examples were kept by Chrysler, to use for further evaluation.