Electrical issue re: starting
Safety Car
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You can use a test light or voltmeter to see if your newly installed key-on main feed wire has battery voltage when cranking. If necessary, splice the bypass wire with the new 12-gauge ignition-feed wire and eliminate the ballast resistor
Just Google the instructions for that unit.
Just Google the instructions for that unit.
Team Owner
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Army
The MSD Points Eliminator and Lectric Limited Breakerless SE technology are different than the Pertronix, both of them require the ballast resistor (as does the Mallory Unilite for that matter)
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Apr 10, 2016 at 09:45 AM.
Safety Car
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and it tells you to remove the ballast unit
don't want to mix things up. continue on
Last edited by rtruman; Apr 10, 2016 at 04:07 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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From: Bergen County, NJ
I have zero. Please explain what you mean by "an open ballast resistor". I was under the impression that the 2 wires pointed to should have current whether they're connected to the ballast or not. Mine have no current in the 'on' position OR when I jump the ignition switch (red wire to the 2 blk/pink wires.
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Army
I have zero. Please explain what you mean by "an open ballast resistor". I was under the impression that the 2 wires pointed to should have current whether they're connected to the ballast or not. Mine have no current in the 'on' position OR when I jump the ignition switch (red wire to the 2 blk/pink wires.
You may want to read this excellent JohnZ article to get 'up to speed' on the whole circuit
Thread Starter
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Done. I get NO continuity between the 2 Blk/Pink wires in the ignition connector and the 2 Blk/Pink wires on the top of the ballast. I'm sure that means there's a bad wire there. Can I run a new temp wire from the connector to the top of the ballast to see if that solves the problem?
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Team Owner
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Army
Yes. You'll have to do that with the ignition switch connector on the ignition switch though - you need those other connections to start the car.. Your 12V comes through there...
Your test wire will have to be secure...it its sloppy I don't know how it will affect your points eliminator. Some of those things are damn sensitive to voltage spikes....the Mallory Unilite is HORRIBLE for this problem.
Your test wire will have to be secure...it its sloppy I don't know how it will affect your points eliminator. Some of those things are damn sensitive to voltage spikes....the Mallory Unilite is HORRIBLE for this problem.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Apr 10, 2016 at 12:49 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Bergen County, NJ
So Frankie, I can run another wire on top of the 2 already there? If that works it would mean the original wire has a fault btwn the connector and the ballast.
Thread Starter
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From: Bergen County, NJ
I have my Dr. Rebuild schematic diagram for '63 out and I bet '64 is the same. (Everybody has one of these right?). Its this simple....12V comes off the horn relay buss through the fat red wire from the bulkhead connector that feeds the main 12V to the ignition switch. It also feeds the headlight motor circuit breaker. You can check for 12V at the headlight motor circuit breaker at the top of the driver's side kick panel and that will tell you all the stuff forward in the car is fine (e.g. bulkhead connector).
You can then check for 12V at the red wire at the ignition switch connector - if you don't have that something is wrong between the bulkhead connector and ignition switch.
If there is 12V at that connector then with the ignition switch in START then it merely remains to see there is 12V at the switch side of the ballast resistor (pink wire from ignition switch) and that 12V arrives at the + side of the ignition coil.
When you ran the jumper wire from battery + to ignition coil + you 'hotwired' the car to bypass ALL of the above electrical magic -- that's all.
Soooo.....somewhere in what I described above the same 12V you forced to the ignition coil with the jumper is NOT arriving at the coil through the designed ignition circuit.
The failure point is somewhere along the path described above...there are no fuses involved in any of the above.
If all of that yields 12V at the ballast resistor you can then jumper across that resistor to see if the car starts/runs. THEN we can trouble shoot the "RUN" circuit...which involves other wiring.
You can then check for 12V at the red wire at the ignition switch connector - if you don't have that something is wrong between the bulkhead connector and ignition switch.
If there is 12V at that connector then with the ignition switch in START then it merely remains to see there is 12V at the switch side of the ballast resistor (pink wire from ignition switch) and that 12V arrives at the + side of the ignition coil.
When you ran the jumper wire from battery + to ignition coil + you 'hotwired' the car to bypass ALL of the above electrical magic -- that's all.
Soooo.....somewhere in what I described above the same 12V you forced to the ignition coil with the jumper is NOT arriving at the coil through the designed ignition circuit.
The failure point is somewhere along the path described above...there are no fuses involved in any of the above.
If all of that yields 12V at the ballast resistor you can then jumper across that resistor to see if the car starts/runs. THEN we can trouble shoot the "RUN" circuit...which involves other wiring.
I have power to the front harness, lights horn etc. 12V.
I have 12v on the red wire on the ignition connector.
When cranking, I have 10 v on the ballast and the '+' side of coil.
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Army
Soooo....its the 'run' circuit then...
Your car starts on 12V but switches to lower voltage via the ballast resistor when running to preserve the coil....that is where your problem seems to be....
With your car in the ON switch position what do you get on the OTHER side of the ballast resistor ?
I think it would be worth running that temp wire that you cited above...
If you look at the graphic at the top of the document I attached in post #27 you'll see that the 'start' circuit comes off the battery via the solenoid and BYPASSES the ballast resistor for the full 12V....once running the ignition switch provides the 12V to the OTHER end of the ballast resistor which provides the voltage drop to the ignition coil...via the wire in question...
Your problem IMO is one of the three areas indicated in this graphic...
Your car starts on 12V but switches to lower voltage via the ballast resistor when running to preserve the coil....that is where your problem seems to be....
With your car in the ON switch position what do you get on the OTHER side of the ballast resistor ?
I think it would be worth running that temp wire that you cited above...
If you look at the graphic at the top of the document I attached in post #27 you'll see that the 'start' circuit comes off the battery via the solenoid and BYPASSES the ballast resistor for the full 12V....once running the ignition switch provides the 12V to the OTHER end of the ballast resistor which provides the voltage drop to the ignition coil...via the wire in question...
Your problem IMO is one of the three areas indicated in this graphic...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Apr 10, 2016 at 01:18 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
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You can also remove the wires from the ballast resistor and measure the resistance to insure that your ballast resistor is not opened.
The value should be in the ballpark of 1-2 ohms. If you get no reading between both terminals, your ballast resistor is bad and needs to be replaced. I assume you have a volt ohm meter, (VOM) yes?
The value should be in the ballpark of 1-2 ohms. If you get no reading between both terminals, your ballast resistor is bad and needs to be replaced. I assume you have a volt ohm meter, (VOM) yes?
Last edited by babbah; Apr 10, 2016 at 02:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Soooo....its the 'run' circuit then...
Your car starts on 12V but switches to lower voltage via the ballast resistor when running to preserve the coil....that is where your problem seems to be....
With your car in the ON switch position what do you get on the OTHER side of the ballast resistor ?
I think it would be worth running that temp wire that you cited above...
If you look at the graphic at the top of the document I attached in post #27 you'll see that the 'start' circuit comes off the battery via the solenoid and BYPASSES the ballast resistor for the full 12V....once running the ignition switch provides the 12V to the OTHER end of the ballast resistor which provides the voltage drop to the ignition coil...via the wire in question...
Your problem IMO is one of the three areas indicated in this graphic...
Your car starts on 12V but switches to lower voltage via the ballast resistor when running to preserve the coil....that is where your problem seems to be....
With your car in the ON switch position what do you get on the OTHER side of the ballast resistor ?
I think it would be worth running that temp wire that you cited above...
If you look at the graphic at the top of the document I attached in post #27 you'll see that the 'start' circuit comes off the battery via the solenoid and BYPASSES the ballast resistor for the full 12V....once running the ignition switch provides the 12V to the OTHER end of the ballast resistor which provides the voltage drop to the ignition coil...via the wire in question...
Your problem IMO is one of the three areas indicated in this graphic...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
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Sounds like you are on the right path now.
Have you unplugged the two connectors at the bulkhead to see what condition the terminals are inside the connectors?
The wire in question connects thru the firewall to the ignition switch.
Disconnect your battery first before you pull the connectors off at the bulkhead.
Here is a pic of them with the terminals cleaned.
Have you unplugged the two connectors at the bulkhead to see what condition the terminals are inside the connectors?
The wire in question connects thru the firewall to the ignition switch.
Disconnect your battery first before you pull the connectors off at the bulkhead.
Here is a pic of them with the terminals cleaned.
Last edited by babbah; Apr 10, 2016 at 02:30 PM.
Safety Car
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Neither of the 2 black/pink wires from the ignition switch run thru the firewall connector. One goes directly to the ballast resistor, the other one goes to the fuse box where it supplies power to the fuel and temperature gauges.
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Army
He should look CAREFULLY around the firewall area and see if there is any possibility radio noise suppression shielding cut the wire...or as noted earlier, the connections at the ballast resistor look fragile. Next start rooting around under the dash and CAREFULLY examine the ignition switch connector. The wire in question may not be seating and locking in the connector as it should so its pushed out of contact when the ignition switch connector is installed on the switch.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Apr 10, 2016 at 02:57 PM.
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Not sure I understand what Buns is saying. Doesn't the 2 blk/pink wires go to the fuse block and then reconnect on the engine side of the firewall? Because the "bad"wires at the top of the ballast are part of the harness for the engine wiring.
Frankie, I agree that the run wire is pinched somewhere or came to me faulty. ALL the wiring and fuse block is brand new.
Tomorrow I'll begin tracing the run wire to find where its bad. This will involve removing the black wrapping around the outside if the wiring bundle. Can I get something to replace that wrapping that won't peel away like electrical tape does?
Frankie, I agree that the run wire is pinched somewhere or came to me faulty. ALL the wiring and fuse block is brand new.
Tomorrow I'll begin tracing the run wire to find where its bad. This will involve removing the black wrapping around the outside if the wiring bundle. Can I get something to replace that wrapping that won't peel away like electrical tape does?
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Army