[C1] Power Steering
10-19-2016, 01:10 PM
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Power Steering
There have been posts several months ago regarding power steering conversions for c1 vettes. I have a 62 and would like to hear comments from those of you who have converted your car, both pro and con, along with approximate costs and difficulty of installation. Thanks in advance for all replies.
10-19-2016, 01:22 PM
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I personally have no issues with the manual steering in these cars. The VIN tag is on the column on the '61 and '62, so what happens when the column is replaced? The steering effort is not bad, and feels really nice going down the road. I personally would avoid buying a C1 that had been converted over to PS. Just my con on the topic....
10-19-2016, 04:30 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07
I used a TCI IFS frontend replacement that uses a Thunderbird/Mustang II r&p and a GM canned-ham pump. do a forum search and you can find a blow-by-blow treatise on the installation
the GM pump is too much pressure for the ford r&p and valveing needed to be installed to dumb it down to reduce the twitchiness...
there is also supposed to be a jeep box that allows one to use all the original antique steering stuff; a forum search will probably find info on that too.
Bill
the GM pump is too much pressure for the ford r&p and valveing needed to be installed to dumb it down to reduce the twitchiness...
there is also supposed to be a jeep box that allows one to use all the original antique steering stuff; a forum search will probably find info on that too.
Bill
10-19-2016, 04:38 PM
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I personally have no issues with the manual steering in these cars. The VIN tag is on the column on the '61 and '62, so what happens when the column is replaced? The steering effort is not bad, and feels really nice going down the road. I personally would avoid buying a C1 that had been converted over to PS. Just my con on the topic....
lol... right where it's supposed to be....
Bill
10-20-2016, 03:42 PM
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I like that, Bill. Clean install.
10-20-2016, 10:48 PM
#6
While I did not do the power steering conversion on my wife's 1960, I did correct a number of issues with a conversion that was done by or for a prior owner before we purchased the car. I had to do some detective work to figure out what was used for the power steering box and I eventually succeeded. Turns out they cleverly figured out that a power steering box from a Ford F100-F350 Truck 2WD & 4WD from 1980-1995 when mounted on it's side can be made to work just fine. I've not read, heard or seen another C1 power steering conversion done this way but I can't believe this is the only one?
All of the original C1 steering parts were used but the steering column was shortened and what looks to be a custom double swivel or double U-joint intermediate shaft was used to connect the input shaft of the power steering box to the steering column shaft as they are offset from each other. Some custom steel brackets were welded to the frame to mount the steering box and the inner fender well had to be cut out a bit so the box would fit. While the welds that were done are structurally safe, they are extremely ugly so on my list of winter projects this year is grinding down the ugly welds and laying down some new welds then eventually fabricating a fiberglass cover that will go over the inner fender area that was cut out for the steering box, the cover will be held in place by a few screws.
Whomever shortened the steering column was a real hack, the lower bushing that should keep the steering shaft centered in the column closest to the steering box was never relocated in the shortened column, so the steering shaft was just flopping around in the column and I measured almost a full inch of free play from one side to the other before addressing it by installing a lifetime sealed ball bearing which I know is overkill but it got the job done and it will never wear out. It was also free so that was a bonus.
When the conversion was done they used a GM ham can style power steering pump probably from an auto salvage yard (possibly the same place/yard the power steering box came from) and some of the original brackets from whatever it came out of were beat with a large hammer and then bent, drilled and Mickey Mouse bolted to the engine mount leaving the pump with no belt adjustment and leaning at such an angle that I was surprised the V-belt didn't hop off the pulley. I fabricated new brackets that took care of that mess and then re-routed the existing custom power steering hoses in a way that worked out better and looked cleaner.
The power steering pump is located on the passenger side where the generator would have originally been and an internally regulated alternator was installed on the drivers side, that installation and wiring was a hack as well but I addressed all that at the same time I corrected the bad power steering installation (almost a full week of labor to perform all these corrections but well worth it). The tachometer is now driven by a later model Corvette tach drive distributor. The original 17" steering wheel was replaced with a 15" unit which I'd like to replace with one that looks like and original three spoke C1 unit, but still in the smaller diameter. I know there's a manufacturer that produces these but they are a bit expensive, what isn't on one of these C1 cars!
As far as how well this power steering setup works, now that the installation hacks have been addressed, it works great! My wife loves it, I love it, steering is effortless but not too easy and it's not overly sensitive. I like that all the original C1 steering components are still in place except for the steering box and the shortened column. The VIN plate wasn't an issue as her 1960 was an earlier build prior to the VIN plate being relocated to the steering column. When I fabricated new brackets for the power steering pump which gave me a good amount of belt adjustment, it ended up the V-belt that is used for the alternator is the same exact size as the power steering V-belt. So should the alternator belt ever fail on the road, the power steering belt could be swapped in and the car could be driven home, though without power steering.
All of the original C1 steering parts were used but the steering column was shortened and what looks to be a custom double swivel or double U-joint intermediate shaft was used to connect the input shaft of the power steering box to the steering column shaft as they are offset from each other. Some custom steel brackets were welded to the frame to mount the steering box and the inner fender well had to be cut out a bit so the box would fit. While the welds that were done are structurally safe, they are extremely ugly so on my list of winter projects this year is grinding down the ugly welds and laying down some new welds then eventually fabricating a fiberglass cover that will go over the inner fender area that was cut out for the steering box, the cover will be held in place by a few screws.
Whomever shortened the steering column was a real hack, the lower bushing that should keep the steering shaft centered in the column closest to the steering box was never relocated in the shortened column, so the steering shaft was just flopping around in the column and I measured almost a full inch of free play from one side to the other before addressing it by installing a lifetime sealed ball bearing which I know is overkill but it got the job done and it will never wear out. It was also free so that was a bonus.
When the conversion was done they used a GM ham can style power steering pump probably from an auto salvage yard (possibly the same place/yard the power steering box came from) and some of the original brackets from whatever it came out of were beat with a large hammer and then bent, drilled and Mickey Mouse bolted to the engine mount leaving the pump with no belt adjustment and leaning at such an angle that I was surprised the V-belt didn't hop off the pulley. I fabricated new brackets that took care of that mess and then re-routed the existing custom power steering hoses in a way that worked out better and looked cleaner.
The power steering pump is located on the passenger side where the generator would have originally been and an internally regulated alternator was installed on the drivers side, that installation and wiring was a hack as well but I addressed all that at the same time I corrected the bad power steering installation (almost a full week of labor to perform all these corrections but well worth it). The tachometer is now driven by a later model Corvette tach drive distributor. The original 17" steering wheel was replaced with a 15" unit which I'd like to replace with one that looks like and original three spoke C1 unit, but still in the smaller diameter. I know there's a manufacturer that produces these but they are a bit expensive, what isn't on one of these C1 cars!
As far as how well this power steering setup works, now that the installation hacks have been addressed, it works great! My wife loves it, I love it, steering is effortless but not too easy and it's not overly sensitive. I like that all the original C1 steering components are still in place except for the steering box and the shortened column. The VIN plate wasn't an issue as her 1960 was an earlier build prior to the VIN plate being relocated to the steering column. When I fabricated new brackets for the power steering pump which gave me a good amount of belt adjustment, it ended up the V-belt that is used for the alternator is the same exact size as the power steering V-belt. So should the alternator belt ever fail on the road, the power steering belt could be swapped in and the car could be driven home, though without power steering.
10-21-2016, 12:36 AM
#7
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St. Jude Donor '07
Turns out they cleverly figured out that a power steering box from a Ford F100-F350 Truck 2WD & 4WD from 1980-1995 when mounted on it's side can be made to work just fine. I've not read, heard or seen another C1 power steering conversion done this way but I can't believe this is the only one?
thanks for mentioning the ford box, I guess I disremembered it as a jeep box, I think the jeep box is used on C2s.
Bill
10-21-2016, 06:41 AM
#8
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned the expensive, electric power steering for those with more money than time, an intriguing gadget but ooooh that price:
http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8580...-corvette.html
http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8580...-corvette.html
10-21-2016, 08:09 AM
#9
Like I mentioned, I've not found any info on the Ford box or a Jeep box for a C1 and I did spend a bit of time searching. Wondering if this thread will bring anyone else into it that has a Ford box conversion?
10-21-2016, 08:12 AM
#10
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the expensive, electric power steering for those with more money than time, an intriguing gadget but ooooh that price:
http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8580...-corvette.html
http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8580...-corvette.html
10-21-2016, 12:40 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07
10-21-2016, 12:43 PM
#12
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Theoretically, providing minimum assist going straight down the road so you still get the "road feel" but coming on strong in tight spots like parking. Theoretically...
10-21-2016, 06:57 PM
#13
The second link I read with interest and some of the offerings in it sounded close to the setup in my wife's 1960, but there are some differences which leads me to believe her car was a custom setup someone fabricated on their own but they took a number of short cuts rather than doing a complete and professional installation. Whomever did the welding of the custom steering box brackets to the frame clearly wasn't interested in how good the welds looked. At least everything was there for me to re-work and now she has a nice power steering system (other than current 15" steering wheel which has four solid spokes and just doesn't look right if you know what I mean).
For Christmas I think I'll order her the following 15" replacement steering wheel from Con2R.com so it looks more like an original C1 steering wheel - http://con2r.com/corvettewheel-c1/ but for some reason the web site doesn't show pricing for this "Simply Black Corvette Steering Wheel" so I'll have to call them and find out.
10-21-2016, 07:00 PM
#14
I'm sure it has some sort of viable 'limp home' mode as a default or the liability issues would be thru the roof. What was intriguing is that somehow this unit senses the effort required when driving.
Theoretically, providing minimum assist going straight down the road so you still get the "road feel" but coming on strong in tight spots like parking. Theoretically...
Theoretically, providing minimum assist going straight down the road so you still get the "road feel" but coming on strong in tight spots like parking. Theoretically...
10-22-2016, 09:01 PM
#15
I just had some time to look at Ray's (x0000rgw) photos of his F250 power steering box installation. The box in my wife's 1960 is oriented differently, it's rotated counter clockwise by 90 degrees so the lash adjustment screw is pointing towards the drivers side wheel rather than pointing up towards the hood. I'll try and follow up with some photos eventually so others can benefit from the way hers was engineered, it's all about sharing the ideas and experiences on these forums so others can benefit.
10-24-2016, 09:21 AM
#16
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Here is a video of the electric power steering. Looks like the simplest and most straight forward of any option. Pricey though, but not far off from the other kits available.
Unless you can adapt another power steering gearbox as mentioned you will spending a fairly significant amount to get power steering.
Steeroids is a good option that seems well thought out and complete. It runs from about $2,100 for a manual rack and pinion (most say that is easy enough) up to $2,400 for a power rack and a chrome steering column.
The next options are a major undertaking and that is an IFS setup with a manual or power rack and pinion. Now understand that with these options you are completely replacing your front suspension so you are also getting disc brakes and coil over shocks. The price will range anywhere from about $3,000 to around $6,000 depending on which company you go with. I installed a Jim Meyer on the 59 I'm working on and it's a very nice kit but definitely not an easy project. If you really want power steering, which is what I did, I would recommend changing to a modern style motor mount. It's just really tight with the factory motor mount and you can eliminate the water pump leaks. Here is a picture so you can see what it looks like.
One last comment is that if you have something other than the Rams horn exhaust manifolds you will need to see if the option you go with requires additional joints or brackets.
Steeroids is a good option that seems well thought out and complete. It runs from about $2,100 for a manual rack and pinion (most say that is easy enough) up to $2,400 for a power rack and a chrome steering column.
The next options are a major undertaking and that is an IFS setup with a manual or power rack and pinion. Now understand that with these options you are completely replacing your front suspension so you are also getting disc brakes and coil over shocks. The price will range anywhere from about $3,000 to around $6,000 depending on which company you go with. I installed a Jim Meyer on the 59 I'm working on and it's a very nice kit but definitely not an easy project. If you really want power steering, which is what I did, I would recommend changing to a modern style motor mount. It's just really tight with the factory motor mount and you can eliminate the water pump leaks. Here is a picture so you can see what it looks like.
One last comment is that if you have something other than the Rams horn exhaust manifolds you will need to see if the option you go with requires additional joints or brackets.
10-24-2016, 09:56 AM
#17
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St. Jude Donor '07
in my estimation, the Jim Meyer IFS is a piece of cake (practically a bolt-in) compared to the TCI I installed; BUT the JM uses coilovers (which I didn't want) and is/was a LOT more expensive than the TCI.
Bill
the TCI appears to have gone up about $1000 since I installed mine; the JM is about $3500, the TCI about $2400
Bill
the TCI appears to have gone up about $1000 since I installed mine; the JM is about $3500, the TCI about $2400
Last edited by wmf62; 10-24-2016 at 10:04 AM.