Fine tuning spark advance with dwell angle changes
12-28-2016, 02:32 PM
#101
Team Owner
Hmmm.....bent over the fender of my Corvette, with my azz in the air, using a bit of lady's beauty equipment to fix my, car alongside the road, in California ?
That will NEVER happen
(Just kidding of course -- I wouldn't do that in Florida either!)
That will NEVER happen
(Just kidding of course -- I wouldn't do that in Florida either!)
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 12-28-2016 at 02:33 PM.
12-28-2016, 02:32 PM
#102
Race Director
12-28-2016, 02:36 PM
#103
Race Director
Which is it?
Not to worry, 'tho. I doubt your SWC would make it across the country in its present condition.............
Last edited by tuxnharley; 12-28-2016 at 05:27 PM. Reason: typo
12-28-2016, 03:06 PM
#104
Race Director
Never used a match book cover to gap points, but did (and still do) use match book covers to deactivate one set of points at a time in a dual point distributor to set dwell on each set individually. Never smoked but my wife collected matches from various restaurants and places as mementos for years so I have a good supply.
Always felt I could eyeball a points gap close enough to get me home to my garage and dwell meter.
Always felt I could eyeball a points gap close enough to get me home to my garage and dwell meter.
12-28-2016, 03:09 PM
#105
Frankie apparently doesn't have a dwell-tach or timing light, so I was suggesting setting his distributor up with stuff out of his shirt pocket. I got a "huh" from him. After he sets his dwell with his matchbook cover (the one he checks with his caliper), and either cranks with the starter or turns the engine over by hand (not likely on the side of the road) to line up the vibration damper timing marks with what ever he wants his initial to be (on the tab), then use a piece of cigarette paper (very thin), open the points by hand, slip the paper between the points, turn the distributor counterclockwise against the rotation of the distributor until the points begin to open and the paper slips out. This will put initial timing most likely within a degree or two, if not closer. It's more effective that timing by ear. It should start an engine even if the distributor has been out. Someone will probably ask the question "how do you know you're at TDC on number one", if I am looking at the points, I should be able to tell where the rotor is pointing.
Last edited by seb67; 12-28-2016 at 03:18 PM.
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12-28-2016, 03:24 PM
#106
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Frankie apparently doesn't have a dwell-tach or timing light, so I was suggesting setting his distributor up with stuff out of his shirt pocket. I got a "huh" from him. After he sets his dwell with his matchbook cover (the one he checks with his caliper), and either cranks with the starter or turns the engine over by hand (not likely on the side of the road) to line up the vibration damper timing marks with what ever he wants his initial to be (on the tab), then use a piece of cigarette paper (very thin), open the points by hand, slip the paper between the points, turn the distributor counterclockwise against the rotation of the distributor until the points begin to open and the paper slips out. This will put initial timing most likely within a degree or two, if not closer. It's more effective that timing by ear. It should start an engine even if the distributor has been out. Someone will probably ask the question "how do you know you're at TDC on number one", if I am looking at the points, I should be able to tell where the rotor is pointing.
12-28-2016, 04:05 PM
#107
Melting Slicks
"If engine is running, turn point adjusting screw in (or out?) slowly until engine begins to misfire, then turn back exactly xx number of turns. That will set the points to within an acceptible range of dwell".
I've never done it so I don't know how close it gets to 30° but probably within a range of decent operation to at least get home.
12-28-2016, 04:18 PM
#108
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St. Jude Donor '07
I am astounded that a thread on something as simple as setting points and timing has had over 3,000 views... and even worse, no consensus or resolution....
Bill
Bill
12-28-2016, 04:33 PM
#109
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I just realized how blessed I am to be able to eyeball points with no gauge at all and to be able to pry a distributor with a tire iron to power-time a car roadside if need be. It sure has saved me a lot of time and aggravation over the past 40 years. If a person were to use a thin Mercury Head dime back in the old days, he sure would have ended up with timing waaaay advanced: a thin silver dime is about .040", which would give you a dwell of about 10 degrees.....and a 4 cylinder model A probably likes about 52 degrees of dwell. Better off using a matchbook cover or an eyeball!
12-28-2016, 04:38 PM
#110
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If I remember correctly, there was something in either the service manual or owners manual about setting points if a dwell meter wasn't available. It went something like this;
"If engine is running, turn point adjusting screw in (or out?) slowly until engine begins to misfire, then turn back exactly xx number of turns. That will set the points to within an acceptible range of dwell".
I've never done it so I don't know how close it gets to 30° but probably within a range of decent operation to at least get home.
"If engine is running, turn point adjusting screw in (or out?) slowly until engine begins to misfire, then turn back exactly xx number of turns. That will set the points to within an acceptible range of dwell".
I've never done it so I don't know how close it gets to 30° but probably within a range of decent operation to at least get home.
12-28-2016, 04:41 PM
#111
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12-28-2016, 04:42 PM
#112
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12-28-2016, 04:56 PM
#113
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Back on track - I think part of the disconnect is that the OP came across as if it was presenting a proven fact, and folks challenged that. Later posts by the OP seemed to soften a bit and present the issue more like a question and asking others for independent testing and verification.
Seems like that has happened.
At this point its just
................
12-28-2016, 04:56 PM
#114
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If a person were to use a thin Mercury Head dime back in the old days, he sure would have ended up with timing waaaay advanced: a thin silver dime is about .040", which would give you a dwell of about 10 degrees.....and a 4 cylinder model A probably likes about 52 degrees of dwell. Better off using a matchbook cover or an eyeball!
My dad had a fleet of Model A AA trucks converted into a tree spraying machine, a tractor, a flat bed truck, a four door sedan converted into a tree chemical duster and a Model A roadster he cut down and slung a horse drawn mower underneath to cut his orchards. The heavy work was done in the garage picture shown below. The old guy on the right was a wizard when it came to fixing/inventing things with an anvil, torch and hammer.
He kept the whole fleet running with not much more that a pair of pliers, a couple of screwdrivers and a Ford brake adjusting wrench.
The first engine I ever worked on was putting a head gasket on his Model A tractor. He put the distributor in (through the head) and set the timing with the pin through the front timing gear cover. I did the rest.
Last edited by MikeM; 12-28-2016 at 04:59 PM.
12-28-2016, 05:23 PM
#115
Melting Slicks
I had it right from the start. Others thought about it and most agreed with me.
12-28-2016, 05:25 PM
#116
Race Director
12-28-2016, 06:22 PM
#117
This thread does seem to have taken on a life of its own.
Last edited by seb67; 12-28-2016 at 06:23 PM.
12-28-2016, 06:29 PM
#118
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I went step by step to avoid confusion. To sum it up, what would be simpler than turning the distributor until a piece of paper slips out. The spark occurs when the points break. (I will have to admit FTF's method is dirtier).
This thread does seem to have taken on a life of its own.
This thread does seem to have taken on a life of its own.
Last edited by MikeM; 12-28-2016 at 06:29 PM.
12-28-2016, 06:34 PM
#119
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St. Jude Donor '07
not wanting to further sidetrack this debacle, but this is not the only subject I have disagreed with the OP on......
(even tried one once..., never again....)Bill
thank the Good Lord for my electronic EFI distributor....
Last edited by wmf62; 12-28-2016 at 06:39 PM.
12-28-2016, 06:58 PM
#120
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Great photos, but I'm calling BS on any dime, Roosevelt or Mercury, that is worn to a thickness of .015".....which is less than half the thickness of a standard paper clip wire. You could fold a dime like that with your fingers, and it wouldn't have any imprint at all on it. Maybe if you let a train run over it first.....It has been (and still is with some old-timers) standard practice to use Buffalo nickels as replacements for core plugs in Model T and Model A engines....they are soft, and are a perfect fit. But now we're REALLY off-topic!!!