Just Curious....How many of you C-1 or C-2 drivers have an MSD 6al or MSD Multiple Spark Discharge Unit hooked into your ignition system?

I understand that some of your with really nice stock Corvettes might not use them. But I'm curious as to the rest who's Corvettes are not NCRS or like their Corvettes totally stock.

Most Corvette car shows I attend seem to have the MSD 6 , 7, 8, series installed in their ignition system. Also some general car shows seem to have allot of cars with the MSD Unit.

I've been using a 6 series for a long time and have moved up to the new MSD 6AL Digital series as I have added the MSD Atomic EFI system.

I thought this might be interesting topic for discussion.

 

No MSD products on any of my cars. I have standards - 1) I like my car to start reliably and 2) When I set out on a drive I expect to make it back home without involving a roll-back.

 

Interesting point Dan..... I have never had the MSD 6al box fail in over 25 years of use. Not to say that if couldn't but they seem to be pretty reliable.

The newer versions have a Multi pin plug that lets you completely disconnect the box from the wiring to the car. I've been back and forth with my C-2 to BG about 10-15 times over the years and made it home each time.

But I can see your point...If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

I used an MSD on a Camaro back in the day...No problems, though it looked tacky (at the time I thought it was awesome) and I'd hide it now.

On my '66 I use Pertronix, as I have no need for a box with my current set up. My future GM crate motor will have an HEI distributor that fits under the stock ignition shielding. I'm in the process of hoarding parts and Zip had a Black Friday Sale...

That said, as a result I've never been stranded, had my car catch on fire, open a black hole to the Vortex of Hell, etc.

 

I have used MSD boxes for 20yrs...no problems. I like the 6AL and the tach drive billet distributor combo...rev limiter is a nice thing to have...of course it doesn't stop an over-rev during a "money shift."

I had a 66 mustang in high school...did nothing but chase points...got tired of that and on future cars, I swapped them all to MSD.

To each his own.

Frank

 

LMAO..... My GMPP ZZ502 came with the HEI Distributor but had no tach drive. Hence I went to the MSD Pro Billet with Tach Drive. The thing that separates the HEI from the 6al is the Multibile Spark for a longer time or 20* more of Crankshaft rotation.

A longer spark thru the power stoke not just one flash. But I have been in that black hole with a Big A Backfire with the air cleaner off while playing with timing. Lost a Few follicles.

Once I had a Harness fire on near the horn relay....luckily I have a Push button battery latching switch and stopped it before it went to far.

 

Yikes!!

 

Stock original dist., with heavy duty points, always capable of 6K blasts (with a relatively warm hyd. cam), and yet have seen 23 mpg (OD trans).

Have used MSD way - way in the past (when they were not all that reliable), and saw no real need for it then or now, unless I went boosted (not likely).

But I do have a Sun Machine, and know how to use it (for checking & tuning that dist.).

Plasticman

 

Longer spark? No. A CD spark is very short, hence the point of hitting the plug multiple times to make sure things light off. An inductive system spark is generally longer, albeit only once per cylinder event.

There's a reason most automakers put inductive systems on their engines. They work well, and they're damn reliable.

 

I have an MSD in my 1960 Corvette and it received an NCRS Top Flight.

 

I've been running the MSD 6A/8572 tach dist/blaster2 coil/8mm plug wires for 9 years and so for so good...

 

Tach drive HEI unit. Inexpensive and works like a charm

 

Good point! The single point inductive system has about 120 microseconds spark duration and about 180 on the TI/HEI. The short lived GM CD system from the sixties was about 35 microseconds, and I think MSD is about the same.

The problem on a road car is than "lean", low density mixtures, like around stoichiometric at part throttle where they spend most of their time need a long duration spark for reliable ignition. That's why all modern cars - at least that I am aware of - use inductive systems, albeit all electronic with very high energy, and don't associate "energy" with big advertised open circuit voltage nonsense.

The long duration spark of an inductive system provides more reliable ignition for road cars, but the short duration, intense spark from a CD system may be a good thing for race cars that run at WOT with rich mixture most of the time.

Sure, MSD has "multiple" sparks up to a certain RPM, but if the first one doesn't light the fire, the second or third, if available, are severely retarded.

The Delco single point system is a very simple and reliable electromechanical system that is easy to work on. The trouble is that over the years few have received any more attention than occasional replacements of points, condenser, cap, and rotor. But they do wear. The upper bushing grease wells dry out and if not replenished the bushing can wear excessively and require replacement, but that's true of ANY conventional distributor.

Also, most were assembled at the plant with sloppy end play that creates spark scatter, so a decent "blueprint/overhaul" includes shimming up the end play to the two to seven thou spec. The parts cost can be as little as about 25 bucks and an hour or two of labor if you have a little experience at the task.

In my experience a properly setup single point distributor with the 28-32 oz. breaker arm tension tension points will run to over 7K revs without a hiccup, but you only need the 19-23 oz. points if you only rev to something under 6000.

It seems at every cruise-in even mostly "stock" vintage cars all have that ugly red box bolted to the firewall. It's enough to make me almost puke.

MSD's products aren't worth much IMO (except on a real dedicated race car), but they've done a great job marketing their wares to guys who don't need it.

Duke

 

OEM setup here, no problems.

 

Thanks For the post Duke and others..Very interesting.... I also found this on the web which backs up comments about CD Vs Inductive...

Good Read...........

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/456...itions-basics/

 

OEM points set ups in all my old vehicles for the past 40 years with no issues,excepting the Model T, which is OEM coil on plug magneto ignition, working fine at 102 years old. No benefit to running an MSD, and it over-complicates things otherwise. Lars posted a few years back on the GTO forum doing dyno pulls on a small block Ford with HEI/MSD and points ignition, back to back.....zero performance difference. You need one good spark at the right time, period. The OEM's went to electronic HEI to pass emissions longer in warranty and to eliminate periodic maintenance. I was a commercial engine tune up mechanic for years and saw many more tow-in's with HEI/MSD/Upgraded ignitons than with the primitive points and condenser....possibly due in part to owner mind-set: in the old days, people inspected/tuned up/maintained their cars, because they needed to. As cars got more maintenance free, the got more ignored, and problems from neglect became and have become more common. Not likely an issue with this crowd, though!

 

My response was a little tongue in cheek but I frequent the Cobra Forum and almost all of those guys run MSD stuff and it seems they are breaking down all the time - rust inside the cap and distributor, bad coils, fried components inside the distributor, boxes damaged by vibration and heat, roll-back rides home, etc. Beats the heck out of me why they stick with the stuff. I guess the fact that they do says something for them. Maybe it's just me that doesn't get it.

 

Mark,
On my 57 Gasser with the Hilborn I switched to a FASTEFI 2.0 and had lots of problems with the ignition module which supplies a tach signal to the ECU.
So I popped for a MSD Probilet distributor, a 6AL Digital box and their dry coil (i forget what they call the coil).
No problems at all, I love the MSD stuff.
Of course I also like my Pertronix unit in my stock 340 HP tach drive distributor using a stock GM coil. After 20 plus years it runs flawlessly.
Take care and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.
Bruce b.

 

You make a good point...however, I think where and how the MSD is mounted is a big part of the reliability. I can't explain rust under the cap??? Not driving it enough maybe?

Therefore, I am not surprised the Cobra kits cars are having issues...there aren't many good places to mount anything, let alone a big red MSD box and have it not be exposed to extreme heat or harsh vibration (like you mention)...just how it goes with those rides...my buddy built one...foot wells were ovens...the front half of the car was a heat sync...they need an aviation-certified ignition box to better survive that environment

Or the ignition has to be somewhere in the driver compartment...maybe thats why NASCAR puts the ignition boxes on the dash...least "harsh" place they can find to mount? Or why most ECMs in production cars are inside the passenger compartment.

Anyway, I have had no issues on the vettes I have installed MSDs...I mount the box inside the fender towards the fins and used rubber bushings to help dampen the vibration...I put the coil on the manifold or on the firewall...again insulated with rubber bushings...I also think there are significant variances in the setups from car to car...some good, some treacherous...

on that note, I see stuff all the time on these old cars that makes me scratch my head and wonder what else is lurking..

So to me, they stick with MSD because its the best stuff out there, even if it fails in the harsh environment they are operating in...

 

Over the last 45+ years or so, I have used Accel reluctor pickup / amplifier setups, Mallory Unilite pickup / amplifier setups, one setup I built from a Chrysler reluctor and box before Accel offered it, the Accel setup, and one I don't remember the name of. Bottom line, all became a problem after a very few years (1 to 5), most by the amplifier box going bad.
I installed a Mallory 6A box on the 68 with a Chrysler style reluctor pickup and cannot scream enough about the performance. After about 10 years, the car is still starting and performing well and I don't mess with what is not wrong.
Keep in mind, I am no longer drag racing nor expect an ignition system to go 7500 rpm, but for the street and <5500 rpm, I wouldn't recommend anything else I have had.
Maybe I no longer know how to tune the points systems as I used to 50 years ago, but also like the hassle free idle and performance improvements over the points system. It is decades better in my opinion.
Think about it, Chevy didn't put TI and HEI systems on the cars to save money. Not all new technology is bad. I hate the look of the big red box, but love the improved performance.