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I have a numbers matching 65' 327/350 that is new to me. My mechanic is telling me that I should be adding a lead additive to my fuel as the car was built when unleaded fuel didnt exist.
Any suggestions? If yes, what products and do I continue with premium fuel and said additive?
I have a numbers matching 65' 327/350 that is new to me. My mechanic is telling me that I should be adding a lead additive to my fuel as the car was built when unleaded fuel didnt exist.
Any suggestions? If yes, what products and do I continue with premium fuel and said additive?
Thanks!
I used to add TEL to my fuel (lead) until some years ago the need for it was dispelled.
More importantly if your engine is original I would be concerned with using a motor oil that contains zinc.
Your mechanic is likely thinking of damage to the exhaust valve from running with unleaded fuel. This has turned out to not be an issue at all.
You don't need leaded fuel and, if you ever do an engine tear-down, do NOT let a machine shop talk you into installing hardened valve seats.
That being said, I would be careful with your distributor (mechanical and vacuum) and initial advance to make certain engine does not ping or suffer detonation. This can normally be tuned out...... or you always run 93 octane premium fuel in the car.
If you want to experiment, you can do what myself and others do, which is to run a blend of 91-93 octane no-ethanol gas and mix in VP or Sunoco leaded racing fuel (Sunoco Standard or VP #110 are good examples). I use a 50/50 mix and the effect on the car is noticeable. But cost is high since racing gas is about $8-10/gallon. Some folks use leaded aviation fuel LL100 as a substitute for leaded racing gasoline.
Octane Supreme 130 is also an option and is effective........since it is actual TEL/TEF in a toluene base. Google the name for places to purchase.
You don't really need leaded fuel in your car, but your car will run better if you use it and tune it for max performance. The downside is cost, lead emissions (US government does not like) and increased fouling and corrosion on spark plugs and exhaust pipes. Make your own decision.
Larry
Last edited by Powershift; Apr 3, 2017 at 11:46 AM.
You don't say where you are located.. but in California, the best gas we can buy is 91.
So I also run a bit of Octane Supreme 130, mixed to add 3-4 points of octane.
Otherwise I have to retard the timing by an unacceptable amount.
The plastic bottles you see at auto parts stores are garbage.
I have a numbers matching 65' 327/350 that is new to me. My mechanic is telling me that I should be adding a lead additive to my fuel as the car was built when unleaded fuel didnt exist.
Any suggestions? If yes, what products and do I continue with premium fuel and said additive?
Thanks!
L-79 engines do not need it. Never needed it....I have run 85 when in Cal high country/ Europe without problems....91-93 will be fine...
Most of the additives are snake oil. Ok, all of them are.
I've written about a half dozen articles on gasoline and not a single additive company has been able to supply me with scientific studies showing they actually work.
The refiners have told me they have no interest in even testing these products. Their job is to refine gasoline.
Some people love the additives. It's some sort of religious thing with them. They just believe in them.
The good part is they probably won't do any damage.
Can you even get a true "lead" additive any longer. I thought the true lead one's had been banned years ago.
Ralph
Yes you can............and Octane Supreme 130 is it. It is real TEF in a toluene base.
If Richard Newton or anyone else has any data to disprove this, I would like to see it. This product has been around for decades and was initially called Lead Supreme and sold by Stone Oil in Georgia. He purchased it from one of the last manufacturers in the USA before all USA production was stopped. The current TEL/TEF is very likely imported into the USA just like the TEL/TEF that is used in LL100 Aviation Fuel and in Leaded Racing Fuels.. But even the "small aviation" industry expects that someday ALL lead will be unavailable for anything fuel related in any application.
In my previous life I worked for one of the three USA companies that actually produced TEL/TEF for the auto industry. I have keep current on this topic over the years to stay informed.
FWIW.
Larry
Last edited by Powershift; Apr 3, 2017 at 12:47 PM.
Yes you can............and Octane Supreme 130 is it. It is real TEF in a toluene base.
If Richard Newton or anyone else has any data to disprove this, I would like to see it. This product has been around for decades and was initially called Lead Supreme and sold by Stone Oil in Georgia. He purchased it from one of the last manufacturers in the USA before all USA production was stopped. The current TEL/TEF is very likely imported into the USA just like the TEL/TEF that is used in LL100 Aviation Fuel and in Leaded Racing Fuels.. But even the "small aviation" industry expects that someday ALL lead will be unavailable for anything fuel related in any application.
In my previous life I worked for one of the three USA companies that actually produced TEL/TEF for the auto industry. I have keep current on this topic over the years to stay informed.
FWIW.
Larry
Agree 100%
I used to buy TEL from Jack Podell.
When it became common knowledge that it wasnt needed I stopped buying it. Last time I added it to fuel was early 90's.
Car runs just as good now as it did before it stopped drinking the KoolAid.
Agree 100%
I used to buy TEL from Jack Podell.
When it became common knowledge that it wasnt needed I stopped buying it. Last time I added it to fuel was early 90's.
Car runs just as good now as it did before it stopped drinking the KoolAid.
The mix that Jack P sold was Max Lead..........it had the correct TEL/TEF content but was in a Jet A or kerosene base rather than a toluene base like the Octane Supreme. But both products came from the same source.
When the owner of Stone Oil got into trouble with the Feds and EPA and OSHA with his product(s) he sold out and closed shop, and his lead inventory later showed up in Utah. That company eventually closed shop as well..........but I do not know exactly what caused this closure. It really doesn't matter. I believe someone/some group in Michigan now sells the Octane Supreme 130...........with only a few sales leaders nationwide. How much longer they can go is unknown at this point. It will eventually end.
The last TEL plant that existed in the "civilized world" was in England. They have either closed up or are in the process of doing so. China and South America still are sources of the organic lead. But again, these will also likely cease to exist sometime in the future as world demand goes down.
Sort of funny because I distinctly remember Edd China putting hardened valve seats in an older car for the reasons cited above. I respect the guy and maybe that was just "fun TV" but the car clearly didn't require it...
As you can see, you've stumbled into a topic that is somewhat controversial.
Valve seat recession does occur in motors from lack of lubrication in the fuel. I have seen it with my own eyes, although not specifically in a Corvette motor.
In the civil aviation world, where the consequences of failures are a much higher, this is a huge issue as leaded fuel is getting more difficult to source, and most engine manufacturers have not certified their engines for non-leaded fuel.
My read of the non-believers position is that in a motor that is not under heavy load (not in aviation, racing, or trucking applications), the RATE of seat recession is so slow that it won't be a problem in the life of the engine.
Perhaps that is true... but valve seat recession is a real thing.
OK, correct me if I am wrong. What I am understanding here is that a street driven, stock L79 with 11:1 compression ratio can be run on 89 octane unleaded regular gasoline and be just fine. True, or did I miss something?
Slightly OT but kind of on the same theme, high zinc oils are needed for the stock flat tappet cam but would not be needed if the engine had a full roller cam in it?
i.e. modern Mobile One would be fine as long as there were no flat tappet cam.
Regarding octane and CR: Static compression ratio is not enough to go on.
The cam plays a role.
Valve overlap can reduce the effective CR.
Your valve lash setting can even effect this (as it effects the overlap)
Regarding oil and flat tappets: That's another hot button.. I'll only say that the different grades of Mobile 1 have different amounts of zinc. Search the archives for MUCH more on this hotly debated subject.
OK, correct me if I am wrong. What I am understanding here is that a street driven, stock L79 with 11:1 compression ratio can be run on 89 octane unleaded regular gasoline and be just fine. True, or did I miss something?
Slightly OT but kind of on the same theme, high zinc oils are needed for the stock flat tappet cam but would not be needed if the engine had a full roller cam in it?
i.e. modern Mobile One would be fine as long as there were no flat tappet cam.
As SD said above, there are many other factors. But here's the thing--if you run 89 octane and the engine doesn't ping, it's fine. A higher octane rating is only needed if the engine pings (or detonates, obviously).
As for zinc and flat tappets, there is controversy. It's not something I tend to worry about because I don't put many miles on my old car anyway.
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Fuel/Lead Additive needed?
