rinkydink64

My story starts out about a month ago. I'm beginning to start the assessment of my AC system on my 64 coupe. My friend of many years ask me to bring it to his garage to start the work, about 70 miles away. I take my car to his shop and drop it off for him to start his work while I return home and continue with my job.

I get a call a few weeks later to return to his shop and pick up my car.
He states the compressor is leaking refrigerant around the front seal, kind of expected since PO told me the AC compressor needed repair prior to install. Also the STV valve was not functioning at all. So I have since sent them to Fla for rebuild at Original Air in Tampa. He also stated that with the length of my current alternator belt, he felt was a little short, he clocked the back half of the alternator allowing for easier removal of the belt. I'm thinking OK, no big deal.

I start home, need a little pushwater for the road. I pull over and fill 'er up at the local fillin' station and jump back in my hot rod and ...no start. It was hot, 100 deg outside, so I'm not sure what else is not working at that moment. So I roll my car backward down the hill and roll start the hot rod. OK , I'm good, I'm rollin down the highway headed home. I make it home puller up in the garage and shut 'er down. I told myself, "Self, restart the the car" just to see what happens.

Bam, no start! I'm hot and sweaty so I turn in for the day.

The next morning I go out to the garage to see if the starter will turn over, but not necessarily start the car. Three successive times the starter engaged properly, sounded normal. On the fourth try nothing.

At this time I'm persueing a starter solution. I remove old starter, mini starter from ProForm, circa Oct '94. I purchase a new ProForm mini starter form local auto shack. I install same on the car, three connections on the solenoid, two starter bolts, it ain't rocket surgery.

Turn the key to see if car will start, nothing happens. But now I see nothing else is lit up in the car. OoooooH! not good, cowboy. NO interior lights, power windows, instrument lights, horn, headlights,..DEAD, graveyard dead. So I start checking and inspecting battery cables for secure connections, corrosion, loose grounds. I'm finding no smoking gun. Everything seems to be in order.

Ah ha! The infamous red wire! I'm checking it out under the hood. I remove the wire harness from the bulkhead connector but connections seem to be ingood working order. I wire brushed the connectors, re attached same but same result, everything is dead no start. I will come back with some contact cleaner next week and clean that connection.

My VOM shows I have 12.9 volts at the battery with no load. I have 12.86 volts at the starter solenoid, makes sense. All connections at the solenoid seem positive and secure. I connect a remote start switch at the battery connection on the solenoid and the purple wire connection. I close the remote switch and the starter turns over each time I try.

OK all, lead down my path to a solution. How does the fuse panel inside secure to the firewall? I plan to remove next week for inspection.

SOme of these fuse panel pictures on the forum look pretty rough in
terms of condition, rust corrosion and so forth. My car seems to be pretty muchly up to snuff when perusing the wiring inside the car. The POs must have replaced the engine harness and the headlight harness.

I'll hang up and get to work. Somebody has got to pull the wagon.

Looking forward to discussion and ideas.

Semper Fi

65GGvert

Ordinarily the horn will still work with the red wire problem. Did your horn work before this problem? Really sounds more like a battery cable connection or the ground from the battery.

aclassicnut

Sounds like a problem I had one time. Red wire to the starter and also ignition switch. Changed both no further problems since.

65GGvert

These things don't go through the ignition switch: clock, glove box light, courtesy lights, headlights, tail lights, park lights, lighter, horn, brake lights. While it's possible you may have a bad ignition switch causing the start issue, it won't cause the other things to be dead. When it's dead, connect your negative meter lead to a known good ground, not the battery, then measure to the positive battery terminal, then battery cable, then cable end on starter from battery. If you don't have voltage at the positive battery terminal with the ground on the engine or frame, then start working on the ground (negative terminal) side. If you do have it on the terminal, then follow the other direction I mentioned to the starter.

Kerrmudgeon

I had the same problem and symptoms on my old 66. I hotwired it to get it home. Check the connector at the back of the ignition switch. Mine had a short that you couldn't see unless you unplugged it. I got a new ign. switch and took the plug off and replaced it and it was good to go.

65GGvert

Ignition switch won't kill p/w, headlights, interior lights, inst lights, etc.

gcb1966

Sullyvette

I had a very similar issue a few months ago. See my post. I replaced the '65 engine harness and I've had no issue since. The forum members suggested replacing the 52 year old harness. I did find some old crusty frayed wires after removal of old harness. Good luck. It turned out to be a 3.5 hr job. Lectric Wiring did the trick. Sully

oldpainter

I'm no expert on this stuff, but how about the re-clocking of the alternator. Red wire not secure or bad terminal,etc. ???

rinkydink64

Yes the horn worked prior to this issue. I'll persue the negative ground theory at this point. This seems the most logical.

rinkydink64

I have 12.9 V at the battery and the starter with ground reference being the negative post of the battery. I'll check with ground reference at the frame and the engine block. The starter will turnover with the remote start switch.


Checking, will update later in the week, next Monday/Tuesday.

rinkydink64

Wires and connectors seem to be in good shape with positive secure connections. Alternator is NOT securely attached to the engine as I am working the borgeson power steering upgrade.

rinkydink64

Is there any type of a fusible link I can check and if so, where is it located?

65GGvert

Not unless somebody not unless somebody added one

65GGvert

That will that will tell you quickly if it's a ground issue.

rinkydink64

How does the RED wire get energized when the car is not running? What is the currentl path? What are/is the physical connections?

65GGvert

It always has 12v regardless of key position. If the battery is connected the red wire has 12v. The path goes from the battery positive post to the starter solenoid, another red wire also connected there goes to the horn relay. One of the red wires from the horn relay goes directly to the bulkhead connector, through it, and splits into two sources, one for always hot, one to the ignition switch for those things that are disconnected with the switch off. So the red wire at the bulkhead is always "energized" if the battery is connected and charged.

DUB

For what it is worth:

A good general rule of thumb when deailignwithGM wiring.

RED wires always have 12 volts to them and are protected more than likely by a fusible link somewhere in the system..and in some areas protected by a circuit breaker.

ORANGE wires always have 12 volts going to them and are protected by a fuse.

PINK wires have 12 volts going to them when the igniton key is On and are also protected by a fuse.

BROWN wires are often times a secondary wire that carries power and are used in other aspects of the wiring system.

WHITE wires are often times a switched ground source....such as for courtesy lights.

All other colors have different uses and can not be categorized into one specific use or dynamic much like the WHITE wire I commented on above.

DUB

rinkydink64

65GGvert---
Ok, this is good information. I have 12.8v at the battery cable connection on the solenoid. On this mini starter, the other two are consolidated to one connection. I do not have 12 v here. I will focus my attention around this connection. So I understand correctly, these two consolidated connections should have 12v with car not running and key in the off position?

DUB

YES...IF they are coming off the the terminal at your starter where your positive battery cable attaches.

DUB