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[C2] What is the Problem - Is it a dog??

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Old 01-05-2018, 01:57 PM
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GTOguy
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Cam, heads, compression ratio, intake, carb, exhaust, rear gear, transmission ratios ALL effect how the car will run. Factory set-ups were usually thought out and performed well. When odd components get changed in and out of the equation by owners, things can get better or worse. Every component has to match every other component. I've driven small block 350 combos that were absolute turds, usually due to over-carburetion, bad timing curve, and poor camshaft choice. I have driven bone stock small block 302-327-350's that would tear your head off. Everything has to be 'right'.
Old 01-05-2018, 02:15 PM
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Rob_64-365
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When I bought my car I was in my 20s, I didn't know me squat. I felt it didn't have the power of should for an alleged 365hp. My neighbor (old school gearhead) pulled my carb & distributor, set dwell, vacuum, idle, set dist weights, new points, pulled the valve covers to set the valve lash, found out the cam was replaced with a hydraulic, but whatever, it made a huge difference in the performance. I didnt know what I didn't know.

15 years later, fast fwd to today & I am having the motor completely gone thru, Upgraded rods, all ARP fasteners, Diamond 11.0:1 pistons, carb replated, all aluminum parts reskinned, full motor restoration, all balanced & blueprintd, heads CC'ed!! Hoping this spring to feel what it is really like now that i know it has all of the things it was meant to have and then some when it kicks me in the seat of the pance real good this spring.

Keep plugging away, you'll find your smile from the pedal on the right in time!! I'm 15 years into my search for it!
Old 01-05-2018, 02:57 PM
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Poorhousenext
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Originally Posted by TCKT B8
I have a 65 that is an orginal 327/300hp. It has been bored 30 over, has headers, Edelbrock aluminum E street heads, Edelbrock intake and carb, and 3:55 POSI WITH A 5 SPD tremec, but it feels like a dog to me! It does not sound like its winding out and it does not put me back in the seat at full throttle. I'm used to the power of a 345 hp ZZ3 crate motor in a Pontiac Fiero, but I think this engine should be close since they both weigh about the same. Am I expecting too much of the 327??
Not sure how close the curb weight of a Fiero is to a 65 Corvette.

Seems Fieros have a wide range of crub weight, per info on Web a range of (2,460 to 2,789 lb). Your C2's curb wight is around 3190 lbs.... Your most likely looking at around at least a 300lbs difference. If every 100 lbs is worth 10 HP, that weight difference could make the Fiero feel like it had 30 HP more than your C2.

What is the CFM flow of the Elderbrock Carb Vs the CFM flow recommended for the overbore 327 CI engine Vs flow potential of the E Street heads, intake and exhaust wise?

Making power is about Intake air Velocity to fill cylinder to max, an exhaust velocity to remove spent intake charge out of cylinder so next firing cycle can fill cylinder to max again. To big of a carb and you slow intake velocity down, causing poor cylinder.

You have headers, what size are the exhaust tubes? Too little equals bad cylinder fill due to slowing exhaust velocity, same goes for them being to big hurting exhaust flow velocity. What size are your exhaust pipes and how restrictive are your mufflers? Are they hampering exhaust air flow velocity?

Like others have mentioned, your distributor timing could be off, or maybe not advancing.

Then what about cam. To little or to much for combination? TQ or HP cam? I prefer TQ cams because of that pull you back in the seat feel of them on the street.

Also what about CFM of air filter. Is it to small, restricting air flow to carb?

Do your homework before you start changing things.

Last edited by Poorhousenext; 01-05-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:02 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by GTOguy
Cam, heads, compression ratio, intake, carb, exhaust, rear gear, transmission ratios ALL effect how the car will run. Factory set-ups were usually thought out and performed well. When odd components get changed in and out of the equation by owners, things can get better or worse. Every component has to match every other component. I've driven small block 350 combos that were absolute turds, usually due to over-carburetion, bad timing curve, and poor camshaft choice. I have driven bone stock small block 302-327-350's that would tear your head off. Everything has to be 'right'.
Couldn't have been said better!
Old 01-05-2018, 03:06 PM
  #25  
MikeM
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Originally Posted by Rob_64-365

...found out the cam was replaced with a hydraulic, but whatever, it made a huge difference in the performance. I didnt know what I didn't know.

15 years later, fast fwd to today & I am having the motor completely gone thru,
If you put the OEM cam back in your engine, just be ready for it to not really plant you in the seat until at least 3500 rpm.
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:14 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by TCKT B8

I'm used to the power of a 345 hp ZZ3 crate motor in a Pontiac Fiero, but I think this engine should be close since they both weigh about the same. Am I expecting too much of the 327??
I have a '66 Corvair with a mid engine 350/350 hp engine. Probably weights about the same as a Fiero with a V-8. It feels like it gets to a dollar's worth much faster than my 327/360 Corvette or my L 84 Chevy II.

All three are quick but I think the reason the Corvair feels faster is simply because of the size, shape and handling of the car. There's some weight difference bgetween all three of these cars but I believe the difference is more of sensation and seat of the pants feel rather than actual performance.
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeM
I have a '66 Corvair with a mid engine 350/350 hp engine. Probably weights about the same as a Fiero with a V-8. It feels like it gets to a dollar's worth much faster than my 327/360 Corvette or my L 84 Chevy II.

All three are quick but I think the reason the Corvair feels faster is simply because of the size, shape and handling of the car. There's some weight difference bgetween all three of these cars but I believe the difference is more of sensation and seat of the pants feel rather than actual performance.
Sorry, but more pics and info about the '66 350 Corvair is needed.
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:43 PM
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Mike I don't care how many times you post up your Chevy II with a L-84 shoe horned in there I still want it or would live to build one. to bad Chevy never built one
Old 01-05-2018, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxnharley
Have you checked to make sure the secondaries on the carb are opening?
Exactly! Check to see that the throttle is fully opened when the pedal is mashed to the floor. Look for the simple things first!
Old 01-05-2018, 09:46 PM
  #30  
Rob_64-365
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Originally Posted by MikeM
If you put the OEM cam back in your engine, just be ready for it to not really plant you in the seat until at least 3500 rpm.
Yes, I'm just wanting that motor looking like jewelry under the hood, & sounding good, & I'll be happy knowing it's right.
Old 01-05-2018, 10:10 PM
  #31  
cardo0
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Originally Posted by TCKT B8
I have not mapped the distributor. I'll have to research that since I have never done it.
Just a plain jane mechanical timing curve is easy. Grab a cheap timing light, a reliable tachometer and disconnect the vacuum advance (be sure to plug the hose going to the manifold). Sitting in your driveway just measure the timing advance on the dampener in every 500rpm step or less up to 3000. You may need to add degree marks on the dampener to make 40 degrees. This will show your mechanical advance up 3000rpm. No need to go past 3000rpm and it's not good for engine to rev higher than that when it's not loaded.

Now if you want to maximize your timing the modern way is on a dyno. Small changes in timing advance will have significant effects on power output.

Another modern tool is a wideband air/fuel ratio monitor. And since your car doesn't have cat converters you install the sensor temporarily in the end of the tailpipe.

Something that's a good indication of volumetric efficiency is the compression pressure. If you have low cranking pressure you have lower power from a naturally aspirated engine.

Hope this can help.

Last edited by cardo0; 01-05-2018 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Add timing steps.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:29 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Poorhousenext
Not sure how close the curb weight of a Fiero is to a 65 Corvette.

Seems Fieros have a wide range of crub weight, per info on Web a range of (2,460 to 2,789 lb). Your C2's curb wight is around 3190 lbs.... Your most likely looking at around at least a 300lbs difference. If every 100 lbs is worth 10 HP, that weight difference could make the Fiero feel like it had 30 HP more than your C2.

What is the CFM flow of the Elderbrock Carb Vs the CFM flow recommended for the overbore 327 CI engine Vs flow potential of the E Street heads, intake and exhaust wise?

Making power is about Intake air Velocity to fill cylinder to max, an exhaust velocity to remove spent intake charge out of cylinder so next firing cycle can fill cylinder to max again. To big of a carb and you slow intake velocity down, causing poor cylinder.

You have headers, what size are the exhaust tubes? Too little equals bad cylinder fill due to slowing exhaust velocity, same goes for them being to big hurting exhaust flow velocity. What size are your exhaust pipes and how restrictive are your mufflers? Are they hampering exhaust air flow velocity?

Like others have mentioned, your distributor timing could be off, or maybe not advancing.

Then what about cam. To little or to much for combination? TQ or HP cam? I prefer TQ cams because of that pull you back in the seat feel of them on the street.

Also what about CFM of air filter. Is it to small, restricting air flow to carb?

Do your homework before you start changing things.
The Fiero weighs in right at 3000 lbs with the 350 and a Pontiac G6 6 speed. 600 CFM Edelbrock. Dyno'd at 300 hp. While the Fiero makes the blood leave my head, the 65 Vette honestly has no feel in the seat when I floor it.

Last edited by TCKT B8; 01-08-2018 at 05:29 PM. Reason: typo
Old 01-08-2018, 05:41 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by TCKT B8
The Fiero weighs in right at 3000 lbs with the 350 and a Pontiac G6 6 speed. 600 CFM Edelbrock. Dyno'd at 300 hp. While the Fiero makes the blood leave my head, the 65 Vette honestly has no feel in the seat when I floor it.
You have not given us any cam specs on the engine but if it is a good performance cam (at least as good or better than a 327/350 h.p.) then I would start with both the distributor curve and confirm where the timing is regarding the cam and make sure the timing marks are correct.
Old 01-09-2018, 08:13 AM
  #34  
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The gearing in a car makes a huge difference. I would tune the car and get it on a dyno. Also verify your tach is accurate and check your rpm’s at 60 mph. Check your speed with a gps and with standard size tires your rpms at 60 should be close to 2600. A compression check will also help. I totally agree with tuning the distributor, that can make a huge difference in how the car accelerates.

Check your vacumn, a stock 300 hp should be around 20, a 350 hp is around 15. You need to find out what you have. If the car came with the 300 engine, odds are you have a 3.36 or a 3.08 rear gear. Again, the dyno is huge in telling you what you have.
Old 01-09-2018, 01:46 PM
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A quick run at a dyno shop will give you the data you need without guessing. For a hundred bucks you'll get a slip with your hp and torque numbers. From there the dyno tech or any hotrod shop can look at the sheet and tell you what you have.
Old 01-09-2018, 05:07 PM
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John BX NY
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Love those engine swap Fiero's. Saw one with a hopped up GM Quad four engine that looked like it was born in it.
Old 01-09-2018, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kolsen911
A quick run at a dyno shop will give you the data you need without guessing. For a hundred bucks you'll get a slip with your hp and torque numbers. From there the dyno tech or any hotrod shop can look at the sheet and tell you what you have.
Where do you get this done for $100.00? The last time I checked in AZ. it was $750.00 and that was years ago and hard to find one.

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Old 01-09-2018, 05:21 PM
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Fiero???......that's about 600 lbs less than a Corvette. You can't compare apples to oranges.
Old 01-09-2018, 05:24 PM
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Maybe something as simple as an incorrect or leaky vacuum canister?
Old 01-09-2018, 06:29 PM
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Hillsboro, Oregon. Three pulls, $100


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