I have been lurking around here for a couple of months and have found a ton of information on the C2 that I would have overlooked on my possible upcoming purchase. I would like to thank everyone for their contributions.

I am looking to inherit/buy a non matching numbers 67 convertible. Here is a little quick history. My brother purchased the vehicle somewhere between 1977 to 1980 and had the 327 rebuilt then. He told me the car originally had a 396 but from what I learned here that would not be correct. I was the last person to drive the car in the summer of 1986 and it has been parked ever since. The car was outside from when he purchased it until 1985 when it stayed in a garage till 1991. Then it went to a carport from 1991 to 1997 and back into a garage until now. There is a 2-3 year window that it was outside during this last garage stint but I do not know if it was covered. I am hoping that the birdcage is still in good shape. The body had damage on the sides of the front fenders where the flare edge is above the tire. One rear quarter panel has a nice crack. Someone put a 63 emblem on the nose and from what I remember, the three holes looked like they were recessed in the fiberglass. Does that sound correct for 63? Keep in mind I haven't seen this car since I trailered 3 states over in 1991. My son looked inside the car several years ago and said it looked like the cats had kittens and the mice had mittens in there. As you can tell there will be a lot of work ahead. Unfortunately I am unable to look at the car right now as it is 10 hours away and buried in a garage of stuff while having been told it may be May before I get to inspect it. I am building spreadsheets on what I'm guessing it will cost to get running so I can make a wonderful proposal to the wife. lol. Also to see if I really can afford to do this.

I have decided if I get this car, I will have to do it in two phases. My end goal is to make it daily driver material (even if I don't drive it everyday) and I am not concerned about it being a show car. I think I have enough money for step one which is to get it dependably running and driving. After that accomplishment I will need to save 3-4 years for the body and interior. I only have half of the two car garage to work in as my wife will park her car in there no matter what's in the way. I know I will need/want to replace the fuel lines, brake lines, suspension bushings etc and that having the body off would make that easier. I've read about the fuel line replacement here as well as some of the other issues with the body on that I had no idea was going to be a problem.

My question is for those who have restored the machines, should I go ahead and take the body off and paint the frame and everything underneath first or should I do all of that in the phase two body work? If I take the body off I will have to store it somewhere while working on the frame. I would also need to get a price on what painting the frame and parts cost as it may put a big dent in my budget.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

You would first need to determine if the frame and birdcage are intact and free of severe rust damage. If they are badly rusted, that would be a deal killer IMO unless you are able to do the repairs or replacement with your own labor and even then you’d soon be upside down in value unless you get the car for a very low price. If these two things are badly rusted, you’d be better off putting your money into another car.
Take a good look at it before moving forward. Dave

 

if you feel you can protect the frame while body work then pull the body and restore the frame and drive line. but if you feel you cant protect the frame while doing body work then you have to figure out how to pull a freshly painted body of the frame and keep it to the side while you do the frame. the best way is to dissemble the entire car do the body work until the point of the first coat of sealer/ primer then pull the body and place it on a dolly and paint it. in the mean time you do the frame/ drive line. then marry the two and finish putting it together. seems very daunting but its fairly simple.

 

Thanks guys.

dkleather you are so right there. I have a ton of questions, but until I can inspect it, I'm going to wait. I had no clue about the birdcage until I found this forum.

Nowhere Man, I can do 90% of the mechanical but none of the body.

I just don't want to do something twice if you know what I mean. I would like to be driving it while I am saving up for the paint and interior even if she is a little rough. I guess I may not need to take the body off just to get it in safe driving condition.

 

Ditto on the frame and birdcage. If either one is bad it can take years to repair. If both are good, then fix what needs fixed, get it running and drive it. You can simply clean the frame and brush or spray it on the car. I repeat --if it's solid, get it running and drive and enjoy it. It only takes a couple weekends to tear them apart and it's FUN. But it can take years to put em back together. Too many of these car are taken apart then set for the next 20 yrs, I've seen it too many times.

 

you will do something twice. its the nature of the beast. pulling the body is a huge undertaking that takes both a lot space and time. but in the long run you will be glad you did. it really don't cost all that much to restore the chassis. but if you don't have the space and time I would not pull the body. focus on getting it road worthy.

 

Nowhere Man. I reread your post and the priming route makes the best sense. Problem is I don't have the funds to do both at the same time. Dang kids in college get in the way of all the fun. Though one of my sons wants to work on this project as it will eventually go to him. He even offered to pitch in money if we made it an automatic. I declined and told him he better learn how to use that clutch leg. I think this can be a fun ordeal if it works out but also think with my ocd it may push me over the edge.

 

its called project creep. your start and realize your a few more bolts away from going all the way. it happens to everyone

 

Pop Chevy, can't agree more on that one. I remember when I was 19 and over at a friend's house on a Saturday night. I won't say a few cold beverages had anything to do with it, but we decided his 454 in his truck needed to be rebuilt into a faster one. We had it out that night and torn down. Next day some girls came over and we became distracted on the project at hand. After three weeks of me driving him and the new girlfriend around it was decided that rebuild needed to hurry up. I can only imagine how that would be with all the life interruptions I have now.

 

IMO, from reading all your posts, stop and think for a moment that the car is probably not for you. If you have other responsibilities, wife, kids, house, job etc. What you are going to end up with is a project that will never end all apart in your half of the garage.

Go look at the car and learn from it but don't get caught up in the moment, save your money and wait, if you want a old Corvette in the future look for a nice car and have someone that knows these cars look at it for you first, and pay him.

Don't buy something that needs everything, save your $$$ and buy the BEST car you can afford and if you don't have the funds just pass for now. Many of these old cars need so much work that they are just money pits.

Great first post by the way...

 

I agree.... You better really think about this.

 

These cars are a labor of love for sure, and I think you have to LOVE it or you probably won't be successful at the results you want. I am in the middle of a full body off restoration on a 64 coupe. I have a spreadsheet from before I started my project trying to figure out what it would cost and how much time it would take. That was all out the window long ago. I am not in any way trying to discourage you. I just want to pass on what I learned so you can decide if you want to take this road. It will take much longer and cost a lot more than you can figure out on a piece of paper. Even if the car is solid, project creep as mentioned before will find you. Plan on it! I am doing all the mechanicals on mine, the paint and body are being professionally done. I thought it would take about 3 months once the body was off to restore the chassis (amateur). It was 9 months(100s of man hours). Which doesn't sound bad, but some of it was because of all the extras (project creep). I disassembled the chassis. Had it sand blasted and powder coated, not too big of a deal and only $500. However, when apart the trailing arms and bearings were shot, needed complete new ones. The differential needed rebuilt and since it was a 64 it wasn't as simple or cheap as if it were a 65 or newer. I new I needed new shocks and leaf spring but I thought now is the time to upgrade to a mono spring and qA1 shocks and front springs too. Then the transmission had a broken fork and oh well the trans is out and partly apart let's just rebuild that too and put in a new clutch. Then there is the time of researching and tracking down parts. You can spend hours doing that. When it goes to putting it back together nothing goes easy, it seems like a battle all the way. It takes space! Doing it in half of a 2 car garage would be tough, not impossible but difficult and I am worried it could discourage you. I am fortunate enough to have a dedicated shop and can spears out. This is just a brief overview and only some of the many examples of my experience to give you an idea.

With all that said, I wouldn't trade this experience for anything! Yes it's has been a lot of work and frustration, there has even been a little blood involved at times. However, I have been able to work side by side with my dad, it has taught me patientce and self control more than I can describe, and honed mechanical and problem solving skills more than I could have imagined. I have also made a few friends along the way.

I know this car belongs to your brother, is there a huge sentimental attachment there? A lot of memories for you made in that car with him? That could weigh on your decision too. These cars can be more than just things, there are stories behind them and they can be part of the family. If not and money and time are something you're not sure you can commit to, think about spending the money on one that is already what you want. Either way this forum is priceless, you will find help whatever way you decide to go. Sorry this is so long...Keep us posted!

 

All good advice above. But there are factors that sometimes outweigh the cost/value decision. You don’t seem to express a strong emotional link being that it was your brother’s car. Most of us will spend more that market value for something of strong sentimental significance. That’s for you to decide. But the keyfactor is what you stated... “inherit/buy”. Is the estate gifting it to you or expecting fair market value at its condition. If a gift then highly likely you can get it drivable for not a ton of money and do upgrades as funds are available. If the estate wants 20-30k.... well then the heirs don’t have a strong sentimental motive to keep in the family. So, gift or buy?

 

 

Thanks guys.
tbarb - My kids are in community college and doing their own things now for the most part. My wife has her hobbies and we still do stuff together but I do have my down time. For about 9 years we used to go camping and ride atv's, but as the kids got older and we lost places to go, I sold everything in that hobby. I also used to restore old industrial lighting. I guess I am looking for something else to do now. I am trying to keep the emotion in check and be as realistic as possible in this endeavor. My garage is really a 2-1/2 car but the half needs to be reorganized. So I would have some extra space.

Huckleberry5464 - I've heard my spreadsheets will be way low on money and time, but you have to start somewhere. Mine are so ocd driven that I have radiator hoses, belts, bulbs, gaskets etc. I think it would be good to work with my oldest son on this one. The youngest has no desire because is it not a tesla. That 3 months is funny because that was my estimate to get it back on the road without taking the body off.

Lotsacubes - Actually there is a huge sentimental value to me in this car and that is what I am having to keep in check. The problem on the inherit/buy is the vibe I am getting from my sister in law. She told me many many years ago I would get the car if something ever happened to him. I have offered to buy that car every year since 1994 and he said no because he was going to fix it up one day. She told me I would get the car right after he passed, but I'm not going to be an *** and try to hold her to something that was said in a funeral home. Their daughter actually brought that up then and not me. The latest statement she has made is that I am at the top of the list and, here are the words that scare me most, "you know you can make a lot of money on that car". They watched all those car restoration / flip shows. If she gives it to me I have a trailer ready to go. I understand if she wants to sell because everyone can use some extra money, but if she goes to high my project budget is toast. Its her car now and her decision. There is a little more to all of this but I am not going to go in all our family business.

Boyan - I like that simplified approach.

It boils down to condition and her price and if it's meant to be then it will happen. I've just been trying to read on how to repair each of these items and decide if this is a task I really want to do. This place has been awesome and I have learned there is way more than thought, but not impossible.
When I do get to inspect it I will post up a ton a pictures as well as get extra input before I go. I'm trying to go see it in March but I don't know if she will be there the weekend I am visiting other relatives.

Thanks again everybody.

 

I understand the draw of a challenge, especially laced with emotion. But you are looking at a "full restoration", don't kid yourself with visions to the contrary. As stated above, if it's gifted, you will be ok financially although it will take a long time to complete. Here are some numbers for you weither you are gifted or purchased. Do you have the tools and garage equipment? Depending on where you live; up north or down south, that affects you work time and environment. I wish you well! Dennis
Tires-$300/$400,
Brakes-$800-$1200, plus labor
Suspension-F&B-$2000, plus labor
Differential-$800,
Spindles-$1000-$1500,
PS conversion-$900-$1100,
Bumpers-$1200-$1700, rechrome or replace
Grill replacement-$1000,
Emblems+f&r lights-$700-$800,
Radiator-$700-$900,
Engine refresh-$1000-$1500 includes labor
Trans/clutch etc-$500-$700 partial labor
Gauge cluster-$800-$1200 includes labor
Dash pads-$1000
Heater/wiper assembly-$300-$400
Seats-$600-$800 plus labor
Seat belts-$500-$600
Carpet-$300-$400
Door panels-$700-$1100
Weatherstrip/body+top-$750-$900 includes labor
Top+labor-$1000
Misc-$2000
Paint+body work-$9000-$15000 material and labor

 

Whew, this whole subject changed with:

The project was something to consider because it was essentially free and a family connection item. The fact it needed so much time, space and money investment (even if free) really made it a poor fit for you, on the other hand.

But now you have the above sentiment that either 1. Causes you to spend money that would likely kill the upside of the project or 2. Have to indefinitely deal with an attitude that you made some big score that will unfairly benefit you now or in the future sometime.

This “Barrett-Jackson disease” that causes everyone to lose their minds and think everything is worth a zillion dollars is even worse when it’s contracted by people who have no concept of car values whatsoever, and/or include people who believe you just hit the lottery.

Personally, as much as you would like to own the car because of your brother, I’d assume it’s going to sell at an estate sale so the family can feel like they didn’t lose out on something. That project is a tough, tough fit for you if the car is free. If it costs you something, like $20-25k or long-term stress with family members, it doesn’t sound like a wise acquisition.

 

Bluestripe67 - at least my numbers are matching yours. Thanks. I do have a lot of tools and access to some of those I don't.

Vettebuyer6369 - She is going to have an estate sale for a lot of stuff but has mentioned the car is not part of the sale. At least at this time. Also, I am the only one in the family that has an interest. That's why I'm getting a list together to show a minimum guestimate of what I think it will cost to give her an idea of what I think is a reasonable price if she doesn't give it to me. If it looks all wrong, I will do as others suggested and save some more and get one that is already driving.

This may all be a crazy pipe dream, but this is the info I need to make the right decision.

I appreciate everyones input.

 

Well the more I research this I do see what you mean about time, space and money. This would definitely not be a fast project. As far as space goes, I have found some improvement in that area possibly. If my first step would be to get the frame/suspension/motor complete, would I need the body around at all for any of that? I was talking to a friend I have had for 35 years who has a 30' x 50' shop and he said I could keep it in there as long as it was easy to move. The problem is he lives three hours away. I have an idea for a movable body stand/trailer that I will post in a different thread to see if it would work. As far as my garage, as long as the wife's car goes in at night, I can use all of the garage to work and would put the frame on a movable dolly as well. My friend is going to loan me an endoscope camera to look at the birdcage when I get the chance. I will record it and post it up when I get the chance. Hopefully the end of March.

 

My thought is to let her sell it, and if you want a 67 in your brothers honor, buy one just like his in nice shape. I know the emotional connection portion that exists, but the time/money/loss of time with your family is a really big thing you can not possibly put a value on. If you took the budget you are thinking as a down payment, and financed the balance, i am sure the wife would enjoy a shiny, ready to roll 67, parked next to her car much more than a collection of parts and a greasy, tired, frustrated husband, that has opened pandoras box that knows he can not close it for the next several years as it drains cash at every turn. It makes car payment for however many years seem not so bad.