mikelj

+1.......

Frankie the Fink

Seriously ?

NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON is surprised - the scale of the deduction is what is questioned...

Over three times the 'hit' over a NOM ...let's not kid each other -- if somebody restamped a mill, it isn't the born with engine...

Frankie the Fink

Its laughable....
If they wanted to drive more people into the restomod arena they've got a good start...

Nowhere Man

Frank by all means what should the deduct be? by deviating from how the car was built your defeating the soul purposes of NCRS judging top flight program. it might be set that high so people are reluctant to add it.

Frankie the Fink

Don't get me wrong, I'm just carrying the message.
I'm far past caring about what the NCRS comes up with next...
But when something is illogical on the face of it, it gives one pause...

The article said so-and-so looked over their judging sheets ?
Really ? Does anyone know of an aftermarket A/C setup getting docked 300 points ? I got nailed for 70+ points and I thought that was excessive.

No, the only conclusion is that the NCRS is sending a message...if you have aftermarket A/C its gonna be a huge kick in the teeth.

They don't like it, they don't really want to see it.

I get it and I'll be glad to accommodate them...

65hihp

The NCRS judging gods don't "set" deductions to deter people from driving their cars. The club wants people to enjoy their old vettes however they see fit. The club exists for the sole purpose of enthusiasts enjoying their cars. Many enjoy by being involved in judging. Some by participating in road tours. Some by participating in social activities. Some by all three. Some just by getting the magazines, and messing around with their cars. What has transpired with this edict about added options is simply a clarification about how it has supposed to have always been insofar as standard deduction guidelines. There has been inconsistency between divisions of cars and this is trying to remove the inconsistency. Get all teams judging the same way when cars do not conform with the as-factory built and delivered standard. It really has nothing whatsoever to do with Mr. Fink except that he has been the one most vocal on the world wide web about perceived unfairness. Going on three years now, best I can recall.

Frankie the Fink

So adding A/C on my otherwise original car is over 3x as egregious as mocking up some car with a non-born with engine ? But that is OK cuz it 'looks' sorta, kinda like the real thing.

There is no universe in which that makes any sense to me...

But, the word has come down and the poor 'babe in the woods' who breaks the commandments will suffer the wrath of "the judges".

Be they good, bad or just ugly...

pop23235

No dog in this, but just how does adding points for driving mesh with “as delivered”? Seems like refreshing the game to prove who is in charge. It’s a game you pay to play.

wmf62

yep, that makes no sense either..

Bill

...and, except for common safety sense, having a fire extinguisher displayed at car shows shouldn't give extra points either...

Tonio

Restoration: to return to it's original factory appearance. In it's original state, did the car come with a Vintage Air AC system? If not, stop crying. If it were up to me, any such modified car shouldn't even be allowed to be judged since it no longer appears original. It's now a modified car. Only a 300 point deduction? Be thankful instead.

tommyn

This is really a more concerning issue. I have seen this with the NCRS & Bloomington on more than one occasion.

Frankie the Fink

Then that's what the NCRS should do instead of dicking around pretending to be inclusive by levying stupefying point deductions to a popular modification.

YOU should be thankful people like me still engage in the hobby (11 year NCRS member and occasional judge) rather than abandoning it entirely keeping our horrid, modified cars off the judging circuit.

Brian VH McHale

If you get a FULL deduct for added Factory A/C what would you expect for aftermarket A/C?

Frankie the Fink

I don't expect anything. I think a consistent standard - although punitive, is great; I've asked for that since my car was judged.

The message is clear, as I've said, "....don't show up to the ball in your evening gown and high heels if you've got a tramp stamp. Fake ***** ? Yeah, we like those!"

I completely get it..

RatDog

I'm an NCRS member, but just for the Driveline and Corvette Restorer magazines. I know very little about the judging process. But I'm wondering how difficult it is to add a factory A/C system to a non-A/C car and if that can be done in such a way as to get by with no deductions? If so, the owners of original factory air cars and owners of aftermarket A/C cars, in my opinion, have a legitimate reason to be hacked off.

If it's possible to add factory air to a non-factory air car so that it has an original factory appearance and, therefore, receives no deductions, then the process seems to me to be an exercise in, "fool the judges", rather than a process to award originality.

Again, I'm pretty ignorant about the judging process. Just trying to learn a little.

Steve

Frankie the Fink

The key phrase Steve is, "appears as factory". If you can cobble together a factory A/C system and it looks and walks like a duck you should get no deducts unless there are other clues the car did not originally have it. Trust me, in some cases, like the rare factory A/C units in 63s - making them look like factory is not for the faint of heart. Just finding a pristine center waterfall A/C grill is a challenge.
People that do that deserve ALL the points IMO. Yes, people do it and pull it off beautifully. This is considered retrofitting a factory optional RPO (Regular Production Option) to a car that did not have it originally.

Aftermarket A/C is a different beast.

I added optional power brakes to my car using all original components and it is undetectable from a factory setup... It cost a pretty penny and some research.

mike coletta

Don't be so hard on yourself Frank. It is what it is!! Your description of "going to the ball" is perfect. I have a lot of respect for the NCRS, and what that organization, and it's members, provide to the hobby. If you don't want to play that game, then don't. I commend them for fixing the "consistency" issue as pertains to add on AC. The "valuation" of those points, IMO, is fair. I now know the rules, the amount of the deduct, and I can choose to get judged, or not get judged......my call. It will never be a perfect system, but it CAN be a consistent system.

Now, my "I told you so".......If you would have let me bring your car to the "dark side", you would have received NO deducts for your vintage air in the "concours class" judging, and your car would have been worth at least twice the money.

Nowhere Man

Steve it can be done and has many times in the past. It involves a lot of work. I see the parts for sale all the time to do it

Frankie the Fink

Ha! If anybody knows you do Mike that I support the NCRS, do some spotty judging and have run my car through it once.

Yes, the consistency is good and as I said, "I get it." It won't be worth it to me now to bring other areas of my car to a heightened judging state to overcome the 300 (MIN) point 'hit' so I'm out of the game. I'm perfectly OK with that...

This thread is more a cautionary tale. If you're heading for judging -- do it before you add aftermarket A/C...the 'hit' is substantial

I prob shoulda done the 'dark side' after the wreck, but I hit my head on the steering wheel and wasn't thinking right

vettebuyer6369

While that is true for midyears in general, I think it’s fair to acknowledge trying to fool people by adding “factory” AC is a tougher trick that you make it sound on a ‘63. There were only 278 AC 63s originally, and every one that shows up on a show field is looked at sideways. People immediately check the VIN to see if it falls in the right range and look for the 1963 only AC parts that are not reproduced and are very, very difficult to find.

Anything can be faked, but adding AC on a ‘63 while trying to pass it off as original is not an easy task and all the parts are not at swap meets.