Ignition Points
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,897
Likes: 1,357
From: Santa Ana CA
One shop did try to jump start it and burned out the module. When they called me down, I just inserted the jumper plug until I replaced the module with another.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,696
Likes: 3,094
From: Cottonwood AZ
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
It has happened to me twice in the last 6 months in my 57. I have had MANY MSD units over the year and also had a lot of failures with them. I am done with the electronic.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10,807
Likes: 2,230
From: Golden Colorado
Safety Car
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 661
Solid state ignition is an exponential improvement over points, this is inarguable as a technical matter. That doesn't mean solid state ignition is the best choice for 50+ year old automobiles that are driven in the countryside, used for touring or car shows. In these cases the current crop of electronic substitutes are not compelling. OEM systems used on contemporary cars are reliable. Few of us contemplate ignition system failure in a Honda Pilot. But the "all under the cap" units have been known to leave us stranded. Not often I agree but often enough that given the benefits, is not worth the risk. For those who race vintage Corvettes I understand the benefits. For those who tool around, they are few, if any. As mentioned above, a properly installed good quality point set will last 30,000 miles with periodic adjustment, which is fun for most of us. Last but most important, a bad set of points can be cleaned up enough to get you home, or if not, can be swapped out on the side of the road if need be. A dead electronic module must be replaced.
As a guy who dealt with electronics for a bit I never liked the idea of switching primary current with a very small transistor encapsulated in plastic under the distributor. Even GM HEI modules were known to eventually fail under these circumstances. There is a reason Chrysler engineers mounted its switching transistor in a T0-3 case on a finned heat sink!
The performance advantages of electronic ignition are many. So are a set of high end golf clubs. But the best clubs in the world cannot improve my game unless the player can make use of the advantages, and I for one cannot.
Dan
As a guy who dealt with electronics for a bit I never liked the idea of switching primary current with a very small transistor encapsulated in plastic under the distributor. Even GM HEI modules were known to eventually fail under these circumstances. There is a reason Chrysler engineers mounted its switching transistor in a T0-3 case on a finned heat sink!
The performance advantages of electronic ignition are many. So are a set of high end golf clubs. But the best clubs in the world cannot improve my game unless the player can make use of the advantages, and I for one cannot.
Dan
Points on my 63 car and never a problem either but I guess I need to check the dwell sometime soon.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
Likes: 7,146
Army
I am convinced 95% of the conversion problems are operator error and/or bad installs...
As to the Hall cell - you probably have eight in your modern car - ABS brakes for example...
I now recommend the Breakerless SE conversion as there is less to screw up when installing and works with all other components being stock.
No lingering questions about spark plug gap, plug wires, wiring, which coil to use or ballast resistors in or out....
If you prefer points then use them - I have no issue with them...
As to the Hall cell - you probably have eight in your modern car - ABS brakes for example...
I now recommend the Breakerless SE conversion as there is less to screw up when installing and works with all other components being stock.
No lingering questions about spark plug gap, plug wires, wiring, which coil to use or ballast resistors in or out....
If you prefer points then use them - I have no issue with them...
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; Aug 30, 2018 at 06:32 AM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,373
Likes: 2,882
From: Western Massachusetts
2024 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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I am not an electrical engineer but always thought the breakerless SE was not effected by heat that's why in a previous thread I tried to understand exactly how the hall effect switch works. I have it installed in my 67 300hp car and never a problem but I don't drive the car much, if it's not effected by heat I don't understand how switching low voltage primary current is a problem for this unit. I will say i have read about problems with these units here on the forum but i question the installation and car wiring.
Points on my 63 car and never a problem either but I guess I need to check the dwell sometime soon.
Points on my 63 car and never a problem either but I guess I need to check the dwell sometime soon.
I'm not looking for a debate on this, so many of you have had great luck with Pertronix and related points alternatives that a debate is pointless, pardon the pun. I keep spare points and condensers in the glove box of each car. If I used Pertronix or similar, I'd likely carry a spare module.
Dan
Last edited by dplotkin; Aug 30, 2018 at 12:31 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
Likes: 7,146
Army
The Breakerless SE conversion is entirely "under the cap"; its a shutter vane system and not as susceptible to dirt and the like as Pertronix and is truly undetectable from stock.....you have to do some tricks to make the Pertronix undetectable...
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 17,571
Likes: 3,461
From: Fresno California
By far the most often cause of failure in an HEI system is excessive heat. I cannot count the number of modules and magnetic pick-up coils I have changed over the years that were dead due to excessive heat cycles over time. With Ford and GM, modules. With Chrysler, mag pick-ups. There is a reason GM uses heat sink grease under their modules. I agree with the above statement that if you do use points and condenser, do not use the 'uniset' that combines the two. I have seen the condensers on these fail due to coming loose. YMMV....
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 141
Likes: 57
From: Alpena MI
Breakerless SE in my 64 since 2013. Undetectable from stock as it uses a single wire and the stock coil and ballast resistor. I carry a spare SE module, coil and a set of points and condenser -- never going to get caught in the woods without a tow truck.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,696
Likes: 3,094
From: Cottonwood AZ
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Yes, but much less expensive to just carry an extra set of points and condenser rather than an extra SE module.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 17,571
Likes: 3,461
From: Fresno California
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 17,571
Likes: 3,461
From: Fresno California
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
Likes: 7,146
Army
If you don't limp COMPLETELY off the road in Central Florida -- and I mean a full car lane's width or better between you and traffic, and you try to monkey around under the hood -- you have a death wish...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Likes: 260
From: Hinesville, GA & Oswego, NY
I have put 42000 miles on my 60 Vette in the last few years, I still use the stock dual point centrifugal advance distributor and I have not had an ignition problem in the 38 years I have had the car. I drive the car just about every day it don't rain, and some when it does but not by choice. I drive it to NY an some occasions, around 1100 miles each way, and only stop for fuel, it has never let me down on a trip, which is more that I can say for my Cadillac or my Blazer, both of which, stranded me more than once because of electronic failure..
I pull the distributor about once a year and replace the points and condenser, check it over real good, put it in my Sun distributor machine to set the dwell and check the advance, reinstall it, set the timing and I am good for another year.
I just don't see where some electronic system could be more reliable than what I have, as long as I can buy good quality points, or I run out of my stock on hand, I will continue to use them.
I don't have a problem with people that think modern is better, I just don't, I guess it is a case of different strokes for different folks
Bill
,
I pull the distributor about once a year and replace the points and condenser, check it over real good, put it in my Sun distributor machine to set the dwell and check the advance, reinstall it, set the timing and I am good for another year.
I just don't see where some electronic system could be more reliable than what I have, as long as I can buy good quality points, or I run out of my stock on hand, I will continue to use them.
I don't have a problem with people that think modern is better, I just don't, I guess it is a case of different strokes for different folks
Bill
,
Last edited by Bill Pilon; Aug 31, 2018 at 06:54 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,329
Likes: 2,271
From: NorCal
Maybe we should all just go back to good old fashioned magneto systems. Then we could have a three way discussion about the relative merits of each type!
That could keep this topic going for years!
That could keep this topic going for years!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Likes: 260
From: Hinesville, GA & Oswego, NY
Don't knock them till you have used them
Bill