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Help with 7 leaf spring installation

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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 04:22 PM
  #61  
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Post a picture of your completed installation.
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 04:52 PM
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 04:54 PM
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Top photo lower left bushing I couldn't get to seat properly.

Bottom photo if you look closely you can see the bottom leaf is further forward a good half inch than the leaf above it.

I'm wondering if I need a new leaf spring.

Thanks.

Butch
S. Jersey
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 05:14 PM
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Now that I see those strut rods up close, they are not rod ends. They’re also not stock. Are the bushing poly or rubber? If poly, you should replace them with rubber as the normal range of motion of the trailing arm is an arc, not a line. This stresses those bushing every time you drive and will wear out poly quickly. Other than the misaligned spring leaf, I don’t see anything else out of order. However, that leaf cannot stay mis-aligned like that and would be dangerous to drive on.

Last edited by Factoid; Nov 3, 2018 at 05:15 PM.
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 6T6Vet
Top photo lower left bushing I couldn't get to seat properly.

Bottom photo if you look closely you can see the bottom leaf is further forward a good half inch than the leaf above it.

I'm wondering if I need a new leaf spring.

Thanks.

Butch
S. Jersey
Hook up the camber rods and then jack up one or both (at least, the driver's side) trailing arms until the axle shaft is level. Take another pair of photos.

Let us know if lifting a trailing arm lifts the chassis off the jack stands?

Install the shocks (as they limit the downward travel of the trailing arm to protect against binding the axle shaft u-joints).
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 06:39 PM
  #66  
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See if I can touch on everything.

My strut rods are made by Auto Pro USA.

I tried using a floor jack to jack up the spring and after a couple pumps it raised the car off the jack stands. There was no way to put the strut rods on. I did have them on before I
tried putting the spring on but that didn't work.

The bushings I have for the trail arm and spring link are poly. I bought poly because I ruined 3 of the nubs on the rubber ones.

I don't know if the strut rod bushings are rubber or poly.

Now here is something that could be of concern. 15 years ago when I took the back end a part I wanted to rebuild the trail arms. I could not get the bolt out of the
chassis and trail arm assembly. I had to chisel that welded part off where the trail arm bolt goes through. It's only about 1"x1". Had a new piece made and drilled
the center. I played with the area that piece goes before welding. It's a tight fit for the bolt. So when I found a spot that the bolt went easily through we welded it.
It's about 1/16 off from the other side. I myself don't think that makes a difference with the problems I'm having. I think had I corrected that 1/16 the bolt would
not have gone through. I had a welder who owns a welding shop do the work. He did a great job. Looks like the one on the other side.
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 10:31 PM
  #67  
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What's the order of putting the spring in? Would a composite spring be any better?

Thanks!!

Butch
S. Jersey
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 10:42 PM
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I have a 360# composite in my ‘64 and I like it a lot.
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Factoid
I have a 360# composite in my ‘64 and I like it a lot.
Did you install it?
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Old Nov 3, 2018 | 10:51 PM
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Not originally, but I did remove it when I was checking out my suspension, installing new strut rods, shocks and a rear sway bar.



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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 6T6Vet
What's the order of putting the spring in? Would a composite spring be any better?

Thanks!!

Butch
S. Jersey
The ongoing problem is that the spring end bolts should be the very last thing in the install order sequence, after the camber rods and shocks (because they locate the side position of the trailing arm, and limit the lowest position of the trailing arm). Since your installation order was abnormal because you did not weight the chassis enough to keep it stable while jacking the spring, you will not be able to confirm the spring is the problem until you get the chassis weight on the wheels.

The 9-leaf spring should be close to a soft 190#/in rate, and near flat with the chassis weight on the tires (you are close to testing this).

I don't know if the trailing arm repair is promoting the spring alignment problem, but the angle of the axle shafts and trailing arms as shown are too extreme (a big part of the rest of the alignment problems).

You made it this far, so you may as well try to get the rest assembled, safely. If you cannot jack up the spring to flatten it out without raising the chassis you need to weight the chassis before going any further. Weight the chassis to make it stable on the jack stands, then jack the spring to flatten it out without lifting the chassis, to make it easy to move the trailing arm to complete the camber rod and shock assembly to the trailing arm with less angle on the axle shafts. Get the shocks installed, and the camber rods installed loose in whatever length works easiest with the axle shafts near level, and then adjust the camber with rod length changes after the chassis weight is on the spring.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP
The ongoing problem is that the spring end bolts should be the very last thing in the install order sequence, after the camber rods and shocks (because they locate the side position of the trailing arm, and limit the lowest position of the trailing arm). Since your installation order was abnormal because you did not weight the chassis enough to keep it stable while jacking the spring, you will not be able to confirm the spring is the problem until you get the chassis weight on the wheels.

The 9-leaf spring should be close to a soft 190#/in rate, and near flat with the chassis weight on the tires (you are close to testing this).

I don't know if the trailing arm repair is promoting the spring alignment problem, but the angle of the axle shafts and trailing arms as shown are too extreme (a big part of the rest of the alignment problems).

You made it this far, so you may as well try to get the rest assembled, safely. If you cannot jack up the spring to flatten it out without raising the chassis you need to weight the chassis before going any further. Weight the chassis to make it stable on the jack stands, then jack the spring to flatten it out without lifting the chassis, to make it easy to move the trailing arm to complete the camber rod and shock assembly to the trailing arm with less angle on the axle shafts. Get the shocks installed, and the camber rods installed loose in whatever length works easiest with the axle shafts near level, and then adjust the camber with rod length changes after the chassis weight is on the spring.

The shocks and struts will not be easy to install with the rear spring loaded................but it can be done. The Chevrolet Service Manual gives some advice on these tasks, but they also have the advantage of various full floor lifts (frame and drive on) to elevate the car to a decent working height both with wheels hanging and wheels supported. The installed rear spring will fight you all the way for these tasks.

Although it is a minor point, I believe the large washers for each spring end cushion are upside down. It looks this way from your pictures, so check them. I incorrect, flip them around sometime if/when you get a chance. No big deal even if reversed.

Again, be careful tightening the four spring bolts to the rear axle cover plate, and make sure they are not too long and crack the case (blind holes). This tightening is done after the car is on it's wheels and the body is at it's normal ride height. Since you thought the threads were a bit "soft" on these bolts, I recommend you limit the torque applied.

Proper shocks for the rear have a maximum extension length of 14-1/4 inches measured from center of the end mounting bushings. This is to prevent the trailing arms from going too low and binding the trailing arm u-joints when driving the car. So measure what you have and plan to install, and keep the length to less than 14-1/4 inches to avoid future issues.

Good luck.

Larry
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 12:41 PM
  #73  
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Butch
340HP and Powershift above posts are dead-nuts accurate regarding strut rods & shocks & attaching bolt torque procedure + bolt grip length & cushion retaining washer position.

Losing the aftermarket, off-shore spring & purchasing quality USA made unit (Eaton) might be well worth consideration. Note that your spring is 'single-stage' configuration in which all 9 leaves have free arch. This was a '63 only OEM feature ... '64 model year & later use two-stage 6/3 springs with the top 3 leaves flat, bottom 6 with arch for less "jouncy" ride characteristics. Eaton makes both single & two stage, as well as a 7-leaf. You can be assured it's heat treated (quench & temper) SAE 5160 alloy steel -- who knows what yours might be. From the photos, it looks like you have a ton of free arch & quite a large stack height between the mounting plate & differential mount surface. Good used OEM springs are difficult to find, as the main leaf underside is really exposed to the elements and most have pitting & cratering on the underside. I believe this main leaf can also be purchased stand-alone, however, should you find such a unit.

Good luck & be safe.
Jeff






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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 02:56 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP
The ongoing problem is that the spring end bolts should be the very last thing in the install order sequence, after the camber rods and shocks (because they locate the side position of the trailing arm, and limit the lowest position of the trailing arm). Since your installation order was abnormal because you did not weight the chassis enough to keep it stable while jacking the spring, you will not be able to confirm the spring is the problem until you get the chassis weight on the wheels.

The 9-leaf spring should be close to a soft 190#/in rate, and near flat with the chassis weight on the tires (you are close to testing this).

I don't know if the trailing arm repair is promoting the spring alignment problem, but the angle of the axle shafts and trailing arms as shown are too extreme (a big part of the rest of the alignment problems).

You made it this far, so you may as well try to get the rest assembled, safely. If you cannot jack up the spring to flatten it out without raising the chassis you need to weight the chassis before going any further. Weight the chassis to make it stable on the jack stands, then jack the spring to flatten it out without lifting the chassis, to make it easy to move the trailing arm to complete the camber rod and shock assembly to the trailing arm with less angle on the axle shafts. Get the shocks installed, and the camber rods installed loose in whatever length works easiest with the axle shafts near level, and then adjust the camber with rod length changes after the chassis weight is on the spring.
63 340hp if I put the struts rods on first it makes the spring even harder to install. It throws things off even more. I've done so many different things that I believe it throws the spring off more to the side of the trailing arm.
Thanks!

Butch
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 02:59 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by vark_wso
Butch
340HP and Powershift above posts are dead-nuts accurate regarding strut rods & shocks & attaching bolt torque procedure + bolt grip length & cushion retaining washer position.

Losing the aftermarket, off-shore spring & purchasing quality USA made unit (Eaton) might be well worth consideration. Note that your spring is 'single-stage' configuration in which all 9 leaves have free arch. This was a '63 only OEM feature ... '64 model year & later use two-stage 6/3 springs with the top 3 leaves flat, bottom 6 with arch for less "jouncy" ride characteristics. Eaton makes both single & two stage, as well as a 7-leaf. You can be assured it's heat treated (quench & temper) SAE 5160 alloy steel -- who knows what yours might be. From the photos, it looks like you have a ton of free arch & quite a large stack height between the mounting plate & differential mount surface. Good used OEM springs are difficult to find, as the main leaf underside is really exposed to the elements and most have pitting & cratering on the underside. I believe this main leaf can also be purchased stand-alone, however, should you find such a unit.

Good luck & be safe.
Jeff






I can't believe you have your strut rods on and your trail arm bolt appears to drop down through your spring. Amazing By the way I like those paint can jack stands!!
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 03:03 PM
  #76  
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The paint cans are not jack stands -- they are holding the mufflers & tail pipes from drooping during fit up.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 03:03 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Powershift
The shocks and struts will not be easy to install with the rear spring loaded................but it can be done. The Chevrolet Service Manual gives some advice on these tasks, but they also have the advantage of various full floor lifts (frame and drive on) to elevate the car to a decent working height both with wheels hanging and wheels supported. The installed rear spring will fight you all the way for these tasks.

Although it is a minor point, I believe the large washers for each spring end cushion are upside down. It looks this way from your pictures, so check them. I incorrect, flip them around sometime if/when you get a chance. No big deal even if reversed.

Again, be careful tightening the four spring bolts to the rear axle cover plate, and make sure they are not too long and crack the case (blind holes). This tightening is done after the car is on it's wheels and the body is at it's normal ride height. Since you thought the threads were a bit "soft" on these bolts, I recommend you limit the torque applied.

Proper shocks for the rear have a maximum extension length of 14-1/4 inches measured from center of the end mounting bushings. This is to prevent the trailing arms from going too low and binding the trailing arm u-joints when driving the car. So measure what you have and plan to install, and keep the length to less than 14-1/4 inches to avoid future issues.

Good luck.

Larry
Larry getting the tires on the floor would be a problem. I have all 4 tires off plus the driveshaft is out. I had a leak at the end busing of the transmission I have to address. I did buy the Koni Red shocks. They're adjustable.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 03:06 PM
  #78  
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Would a new spring be the way to go. I'd go with a composite one. Is there one that would give me a little more lift than the one that use to be on there. Is a 340 composite going to be more trouble to install?

I appreciate all the help from you guys.

Thanks!

Butch
S. Jersey
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 03:11 PM
  #79  
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One other thing. I don't have any shims on my trailing arms. So I could whack the arm in the back where the trail arm bolt is to move it one way or the other. Is there a recommended position to move that trailing arm to. I even thought
of taking off the drive units. Looking at some of your rear-ends every thing looks pretty flat.
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Old Nov 4, 2018 | 03:12 PM
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I think Jeff’s post above is credible and we now need to consider the spring configuration as suspect. The reality is that a properly configured rear spring should allow you to assemble everything, attach the spring ends, and jack each side up enough to install the shocks. Then with the wheels on and the car on the ground, tighten the four bolts securing the spring. I don’t see any way your spring geometry will allow this installation. I now vote for a new and correct spring!

Last edited by Factoid; Nov 4, 2018 at 03:13 PM.
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