The "backstory"......I've been involved in a couple of "high cost of oval track racing" discussions, on a different chat site, and many discussions center around the insane cost of a "pro-built" engine. These discussions also lament that this is what's required, in order to win races, these days, and if we could just return to "home-built" engines, racing would quickly return to being more affordable.

I have a friend who's father was a car owner, back in the early-mid 1960. This was in a time when most racers went to the junk yard, pulled an engine from a wreck, took it home, degreased it, disassembled it, dragged the block and heads to the machine shop for re-work, made 3-4 trips to the parts store for rings, bearings, gaskets, etc, then assembled the engine in their garage. My friend's father, on the other hand, went to the local Chevrolet dealer's parts counter, ordered a brand new 327/340 Corvette engine, and set it in the race car. His critics called him a "big bucks artist" because he did it that way, rather than what they were subjecting themselves to.

My question....does anybody here, remember how much it cost to buy that 327/340, back in the 1963-64 timeframe? It's my contention that by the time the "home brewers" got their core engine for $40-50, spent probably $125-150 at the machine shop, then another $50-60 at the parts store, plus the gas to drive their pick-up truck to the junkyard and back, the machine shop and back, the parts store and back, 2-3 times, they probably had close to the same amount tied up in it, of course they never figured in a "cost" for their labor to chase the parts down and assemble the engine.

I wasn't old enough to have known the "over the counter" price of an engine, back then, as I was only 11-12 years old, in '63-'64. Anybody have an idea?

 

According to a 1968 parts book a 327 short block hp was 350 dollars

 

 

A high school buddy's older brother bought a 327/340 complete engine assembly from a Chevy dealer ca. '63 and dropped it in his '55 Chevy. IIRC what he bought from the dealer included the aluminum manifold, but lacked flywheel, exhaust manifolds, starter, carb and front end accessories including associated pulleys and mounting brackets. I don't recall if it included a water pump or torsional damper, so the buyer had to buy or use existing items from the old engine to make a complete ready to install assembly. What he bought from the dealer was about 500 bucks.

Of course, everything is relative. I recall you could buy a running (barely) early post war beater for as little as fifty bucks, and a cheap burger or pack of Lucky Strikes was two-bits.

I just bought a box of Girl Scout cookies from one of the neighborhood kids... five bucks for a dozen cookies. Sheesh! In another fifty years they'll probably be 50 bucks.

Duke

 

Another issue is all the engine-machine shops that were around when I was a kid are long gone. New engines are factory assembled and come with a warranty.

 

I bought several as well as many of my friends. Chevrolet probably sold thousands of these short blocks and complete engines.

1961- $212.50 (283/315) short block

1962- $222.50 for a short block

1963- $232.50 for a short block

1964- $242.50 for a short block. A friend purchased a complete 327/365. AIR, it was minus carburetor, don't remember about the distributor, I think it had a clutch/flywheel, water pump, balancer. The price was about $550.

You could buy a complete engine much cheaper than you could buy a short block and individual parts to build a similar assembly.

The above prices were what the dealer here charged. The price was either the wholesale price or wholesale compensation price. Don't remember but I don't think think comp price applied to engine assemblies. Whatever, that was the out the door price plus tax, if any. My dealer didn't even charge the $10 core charge for the old engine as they didn't want them.

 

My father would buy 327/350 truck replacement engine long blocks with a warranty from the dealer for my grandfather's business, for about $250 in the late 1960's (a 300 hp long block equivalent, intake manifold to oil pan).

There were people who bought complete LT1 & LS6 engines from dealers for the warranty, but racing would void a warranty (even if the actual race competition was less stressful than the Saturday night back street action). Sneaking an engine scrambled while racing, through the factory warranty process was iffy unless you were tight with the dealer. The biggest owner concern with racing an over the counter engine was that everyone knew the performance, and how to beat the factory assembly.

What is hard to comprehend in today's recycled parts world is that racers seldom bought core engines, not in the 60's, and not in the 80's when I was racing. Racing seldom generated money for an owner or driver, with or without sponsors, so you economized everywhere. When I was actively drag racing every month in my GTO, people were giving me Pontiac 400 engines all the time (I had over a dozen complete spare engines stored in a friend's barn at one time). Within a month after my oldest brother started working at a service station, he had been given a complete early 64' 365 hp 327, and two 392 hemi Chrysler engines (much to my father's dismay, with quick orders to part them out).

Engine machine work was often performed for free, for the business or Machinist's name on the car (many Machinist's ran their own independent shop businesses within parts stores). Adding a set of heads in the hot tank cost nothing if there was extra room, and late nights in a machine shop to cut valve seats or bore & hone cylinders would cost me a few dinners and lots of shared beer. Replacement engines were purchased by customers who valued a warranty, and the racers took advantage of the leftover parts (in the pre-core-return credit era). Spare "no-owner" engines and parts were a lot more available without core return policies, enough that it fueled the giveaways.

The idea that "home built" engines were more or less economical is questionable. Some oval track classes tried to keep cost down by requiring unmolested cylinder heads. With that criteria the search was on for the best flowing stock heads, and the value of some parts like the 61'-64' original double hump 461X heads drove the price of "budget" racing up. You could not buy over the counter 461X heads after 64' (if ever, without buying a complete engine), so many earlier 327's were reassembled with 462 heads after their first trip through a knowledgeable racer's machine shop (saving the 461X heads for competition).

Contrast the oval and drag track rules with my 90's era experience off-road racing in "claimer" 1600 single-port VW engine classes, where anyone who placed 1st through 5th had to risk that their engine was for sale at a $600 price. It didn't matter if the car owner purchased an $800 engine from SCAT, or a $200 engine from Brazil, we still had to add another 8 to12 hours of reassembly blue printing and sand protection work into the "stock" race engine. We purposely made the engines "look" haggard, and never had an engine claimed.

 

Thanks for the info! I kind of figured that a complete engine, back then, was around $350. I've been a follower of, and "half-assed participant" in, 30 years ago, of the east coast, asphalt modified scene. As I mentioned, I've gotten drawn into a couple of "gripe sessions" about why the class has gotten so expensive, and subsequently, crowds are fading away. And as is usual, many people wish for the return of the "good old days" when the cars could be built for $2000-2500, and the engines were $2-300.....except for the "big buck artist" who I knew, who spent $350 for a brand new Corvette engine.

 

Figuring inflation, the $550 (mostly) complete engine I mentioned above is about $4500.00 in today's money. If you'd had to pay list price for the engine instead of wholesale, you can figure about 50% higher on both figures.

 

Understood, but along the way, the rules regarding engines weren't kept in check, so dry sump oil systems, CNC prepped heads, billet cranks, small diameter 3 disk clutches, to go with the "short" dry sump oil pans, became commonplace, and all added up to what are today, $20-22,000 engines.

 

Reading all the posts brings back memories of the 'good old days'. and my memory is consistent with pretty much what everyone else experienced. Several modified production racers would just order a newstock 340 horse short block, then spend the money on making the heads flow. I remember talking to an older gentleman at the races one day, his son had a really fast 350 horse 348 W motor in a 60' Impala. I commented that it ran really well as we watched him make a pass. His only comment was "That son of a bitch ought to run good- I spent $1100 on that engine. Back then that was a fortune......

 

In 1968, I was 16, and had a summer job, working for the local gas station. Back then, Ford's parts division, Rotunda, used to send out an advertising/service tips "magazine", to shops and stations. I was reading through one of them, and they were advertising for sale, NASCAR 427 Ford big-block engines, equipped with the famous "tunnel port" heads. The price was, if I remember correctly, $2995. That was an "out of the box", serious race engine, built by Holman-Moody. Cheap? No, as you could buy a brand new, intermediate sized car, for that price. But I did see 1-2 of them hit the local half-milers.

However, since we're sliding toward oval track racing, let me say this....It was relatively inexpensive, at least until Firestone and GoodYear perfected the low profile, ultra wide, fairly sticky, race tires. They started with the Indy cars, and they quickly filtered down to the local half-mile tracks. And from that day forward, short tracking was never the same. Up to that point, 300-350 HP was all you needed, because that's all the power that the 8" wide M&H Racemaster slicks of the day could handle. And 350 HP was relatively cheap to achieve. As soon as the "big baloneys", that could harness 500+HP hit the scene, costs skyrocketed accordingly...

 

I paid about $325 for an L79 CE shortblock, with cam, in 1976. The LT-1 shortblock was about $425 or so and out of my price range. The Chevy parts guy would always give me a 25% discount off list.
Doug

 

My good friend back round 1975 bought a 63 SWC that had flared fenders with L-60 all around but the car had a 307 engine. He bought a new 365 h.p. long block from Chevrolet and I believe it was around $500-700 at that time.

 

Somewhere around 1975, Chevrolet had a warehouse fire sale on all CE engines. Dirt cheap, considering. They also cleaned out a bunch of SHP BB's at cheap prices as well. I don't remember any prices today. I did manage to buy a CE '67 Camaro 350 short block for cheap from Willcox.
.

 

I bought the LT-1 Short block in my '62 in 1972 for $390. In the 60s after we gernaded an expensive motor, we bought a 365 HP short bock and swapped what we could salvage from the blown engine. Car ran great for the entire season until a better motor could be built. I don't think this is true though for today. In the end by a complete engine from a well known concern. They have worked out all the bugs and use the parts they know hold up and work.
t

 

Bought LT1 short block in 1971 for $409 for 1960 Vette

 

I bought a 302 - Z28 Shortblock with cam and timing gears over the counter in about 1970 and as I remember it was a little under $500 with tax. Put some fuelie heads on it and put it is a 64 Chevelle Malibu with a 4 speed, what a screamer that set up was, of course I was working for about $3 an hour at the time so everything is relevant.