MikeM

Nah! I think his radiator cap came loose and blew steam out from under the hood. He's likely got it fixed by now.

Roger Walling

In my opinion, there is never a waste of money in a collectors car. If you put in a part that proves that that was not the problem, you have narrowed down the source of the problem.
You also have a car that was better than it was before, and will have confidence that that part will not break down as long as you have the car.

Ps, the description of a collector car is a money pit, get over it.

Frankie the Fink

Swapping in known good parts and performing operational tests when all other items have been eliminated to fix intermittent problems is a valid technique. Ignition coils are a good example - you can ohmmeter yourself into a stupor and it may check out fine and fail in the heat and vibration of the engine bay with the motor running...

It shouldn't become the "go to" solution for most problems and not an excuse for not diagnosing the issue first.

GTOguy

I feel fortunate to have operated with exactly opposite this philosophy in 40 years in the automotive industry. It has saved me tons of money, tons of time, and has enabled me to enjoy many classic and collector cars, with none of them being money pits. A solid repair plan, based on logic, experience, process of elimination, and data collecting and processing is the correct way to fix any car, or anything mechanical/electrical for that matter. Replacing a part that was not the problem with a 'new' part does not build in a safety margin.....many times the 'new' part is of vastly inferior quality and fitment. Guys like Lars, MikeM, Frankie, DZAuto, Factoid, Pat, and many many others often offer real-world, 'take it to the bank' diagnostic tips and procedures that many can learn from. Throwing parts at a problem and considering it 'the price of admission" may work well for some, but not with me.

1969RAY

Thread starter is probably chuckling at the "fire" his smoke comment started.
I've learned through the years of working on these old rides that observation and common sense saves a lot money and time, so I'm in GTOguy's camp.

dplotkin

You've given me an opportunity to say that this is why I'm here. I own 8 antiques, only one is a Corvette. But the combined knowledge base here, among the guys you mention and as you say, many others, is astounding.

Throwing parts at a problem is costly, often results in the replacement of good original or correct parts for poor facsimiles, and to the extent to which the problem part is never identified, no one learns anything. This hobby, especially as it relates to the historical value of artifacts, depends upon accumulated knowledge passed down from old to young. Even the use of the shop manual diagnostic flow chart is better than throwing parts at a problem. Nothing will solve the worlds problems, politics or automotive better than knowledge and the irradiation of ignorance.

Dan

kolsen911

Dan I hear ya, but 8 antiques? That stretches the knowledge base. I only have 3 but American, British and German. When I start tinkering I sometimes sit in my garage, (I'm retired), and ponder, then get out the shop manual before my screw driver or wrench.

Clock is intermittent in my Hemi/Vette. Well I thought, fiberglass car probably a bad ground. Pulled the glove box and the ground looked good and snug. So back to the drawing board. I'll just look at my wrist watch for the time being.

dplotkin

A Ford, 2 Chevrolets, a Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Plymouth, and a Chrysler. Lots of shop manuals and I've rad each cover to cover but I still come here to find out "what do I do now?"

If its an old car clock its the contacts inside, they burn up. The winder motor winds it until the contacts open, and when they don't open anymore (or don't close) the clock s right only twice a day. I don't think many old car clocks worked for more than a few years, it was a imperfect technology until the quartz crystal powered movement was figured out.

Dan

Mr Fufu

Hi Guys,

Update - I finally found some time over the weekend to investigate the possible source of my smoking upon starting problem. I couldn’t get to it last week because my father-in-law passed away and you may know how time consuming such events can be...

In addition to some very entertaining replies about fishing and Mr. Fuffy Doo, you all provided some very keen observations and suggestions about my mystery smoking problem. So, thanks for your detective work and the laughs!

But first, let me clarify one point many of you debated: There was no smoke inside the car. All the smoke came from around the edges of the closed hood. When I saw the smoke I grabbed my extinguisher and opened the hood as fast as I could. The smoke was darkish brown, kind of sooty, but not particularly acrid smelling. There was what I’d call a fair bit of smoke, which dissipated quickly. Again, the smoke did not originate inside the car, so I was incorrect to say in my original post that the smoke came from the outside grille vents under the wipers at the base of the windshield.

I went ahead and diligently investigated each of your suggestions, and here's what I found.

Under dash wiring – everything looked normal. I contorted myself to get as good a view as I could of the wiring up behind the cluster and under the dash. I saw no melted wiring nor smelled any burning wire insulation. All accessories inside the car are working normally including clock, radio, dash lights, etc. No burned out fuses either.

Underhood wiring – nothing seen of concern here. All wiring looks intact and un-roasted. The ballast resistor on the firewall looks normal too. Battery cables also look normal.

Coil wiring – I removed the top shield to inspect the coil wires and saw nothing melted, cut or pinched. The coil terminals aren’t burned, and the coil is positioned properly in such a way that the shield cannot touch one or both terminals.

Starter wiring – I got the car up on ramps to get a look at the wiring going to the starter solenoid It wasn’t easy to get a good view due to the limited clearance for me to squeeze under the car on my creeper, and the fact that the wiring is behind a metal shield. But, as best as I could tell, there are no melted wires or anything loose there. I did not pull the starter to inspect further as I can’t get the car high enough on ramps to do this.

So, at this point I’ve reduced my smoking mystery to one of two possible causes:

1. Oil seeping into Starter – This is a real possibility. I did notice some engine oil on the starter body, which I cleaned off. It wasn’t a lot, but enough for me to notice and wipe it away. About a month ago I replaced both valve cover gaskets with the blue steel-cored rubber ones, as the old cork gaskets had taken to leaking rather badly. It is possible that an accumulation of oil seeped into the starter, eventually igniting and creating the smoke. But, at this point that’s only a supposition, as I haven’t removed the starter to confirm further.
2. Carb backfire – this is another possibility. I’ve had the carb on and off recently and tuned the car up, thereby tinkering with the carb and timing. Shortly after the tune up I did get a backfire when starting the car. There was no ‘klonk’ that time, and no smoke that I could see. Until my recent smoking episode I hadn’t experienced another backfire. So, what are the symptoms when a car backfires through the carb? What causes this? The flame arrestor inside the air cleaner housing is intact, although I don’t know how it prevents flame. Is it possible that my engine ignited briefly, then backfired at the moment of catching, stalling the engine to create the klonking noise and the smoke that followed?

I’ve started and run the car several times since the smoking incident. All is eerily normal. Of course I’d prefer to find out what caused the smoke so it doesn't happen again..

Your thoughts?

MikeM

Good possibility.

Frankie the Fink

I've seen cars backfire and throw a mist of smoke-like fuel vapor into the air (dangerous) but the air cleaner prevents it from going anywhere in most cases... You may never know what happened and it might never reoccur...

After the physical inspection I would verify the engine was in tune and just keep an eye on things for a while...

Factoid

That is quite possible. Your air cleaner acts as a spark arrestor to help prevent an actual explosion. Remove the air cleaner and inspect the inside. That much smoke should have left some smoke discoloring on the inside (it will be harder to see if you run a K&N or similar dyed oil impregnated filter). If you are like most of us, the filter will be fairly new as you are religious about maintenance. You can also give it a sniff. It should have a faint scent of fuel, but not smell burned or like smoke unless what you surmised actually happened. I would want the peace of mind of a plausible explanation.

MikeM

Forgot to mention. The sound you mentioned sounds like an engine backfire when it tries to get out through the air cleaner.

vettepoor

What kind of air filter element do you have? I once had a carb backfire with one of those foam rubber filters that caught fire - tons of smoke, scared the bejesus out of me!

GTOguy

Carb backfire is what I'd bet it was. BTDT, and in hindsight, your situation is textbook for a backfire into the air cleaner. Is the element singed? I've caught 'em on fire before....

I think this mystery is solved, folks. And best of all, Mike got a new hobby out of it!!

Frankie the Fink

My Dad was selling these off his used car lot for a while in the late 60's but stopped pretty quickly - POS two-strokes and very unstable with no rollover bar. Before I had good sense I was squirting gas into the open carb while he cranked it. It backfired big time -- and the result was a big fireball in my face. My eyebrows, nasal hair and mustache eventually grew back..


To this day I am ridiculously careful about running a car without an air cleaner...

MikeM

Never consider yourself anointed unless you've looked down a carburetor while it blows a fireball back in your face.

The real test is when a fan blade breaks off and you're quick as a cat and dodge it.

Mr Fufu

I'm running the stock open-element 14" air cleaner housing with paper filter. I'll check the filter tonight, give it the sniff test, as suggested.

What would cause a car to backfire through the carb? Timing wrong? Mixture too rich? Pumping the gas too many times before starting?

vettepoor

Never had fan come off, but did have an oh s$it moment when setting timing on my 65 once. I was outside in my driveway when the 9/16” got away from me, slid down valve cover into the fan and went airborne! Never heard it return to earth. Two years later, I found my trusty wrench in the pine tree next to my driveway.

Frankie the Fink

Almost any 60s car can backfire under the right conditions, a little excess gas in the intake, starting it up with the crankshaft in a certain position, timing slightly off... Its not a common thing on a well-maintained car but can happen in rare circumstances.

My 63 never has but my 61 dual quad car would did it about 2-3 times in 10 years...