Help with 59 shifting problem
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 3
From: Cape May NJ - New Jersey
Help with 59 shifting problem
Hi all, I have a 1959 with its Borg Warner 4 speed that every so often locks up between reverse and first. It's like it's in both gears at the same time. Has anyone else ever come across this problem and if so what is the solution?
Thank you all very much for any information.
Tom
Thank you all very much for any information.
Tom
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,491
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From: northern california
C2 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Your impression of the transmission being in two gears at once is correct. In the 40 years I've had my '60, it's happened to me three times.
Since this is such a seldom occurring event, I just treat the symptom as follows:
After backing up, I pull the shifter to Neutral and cautiously let out the clutch to verify the transmission really is in neutral. If it is, then I proceed to shift into 1st and drive away.
If the transmission is still partially in Reverse, I wiggle the shifter, maybe put it back into Reverse and try again, always testing to verify it's out of Reverse before going into 1st gear.
I suppose the root cause of the problem is some obscure internal wear which could be fixed by a comprehensive rebuild. My way works and is much less expensive.
Jim
Since this is such a seldom occurring event, I just treat the symptom as follows:
After backing up, I pull the shifter to Neutral and cautiously let out the clutch to verify the transmission really is in neutral. If it is, then I proceed to shift into 1st and drive away.
If the transmission is still partially in Reverse, I wiggle the shifter, maybe put it back into Reverse and try again, always testing to verify it's out of Reverse before going into 1st gear.
I suppose the root cause of the problem is some obscure internal wear which could be fixed by a comprehensive rebuild. My way works and is much less expensive.
Jim
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 58,061
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Army
Your impression of the transmission being in two gears at once is correct. In the 40 years I've had my '60, it's happened to me three times.
Since this is such a seldom occurring event, I just treat the symptom as follows:
After backing up, I pull the shifter to Neutral and cautiously let out the clutch to verify the transmission really is in neutral. If it is, then I proceed to shift into 1st and drive away.
If the transmission is still partially in Reverse, I wiggle the shifter, maybe put it back into Reverse and try again, always testing to verify it's out of Reverse before going into 1st gear.
I suppose the root cause of the problem is some obscure internal wear which could be fixed by a comprehensive rebuild. My way works and is much less expensive.
Jim
Since this is such a seldom occurring event, I just treat the symptom as follows:
After backing up, I pull the shifter to Neutral and cautiously let out the clutch to verify the transmission really is in neutral. If it is, then I proceed to shift into 1st and drive away.
If the transmission is still partially in Reverse, I wiggle the shifter, maybe put it back into Reverse and try again, always testing to verify it's out of Reverse before going into 1st gear.
I suppose the root cause of the problem is some obscure internal wear which could be fixed by a comprehensive rebuild. My way works and is much less expensive.
Jim
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,491
Likes: 8,963
From: northern california
C2 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Maybe tweaking the adjustment of the reverse rod would help. Having encountered only 3 instances of being in two gears, and no notchiness going into the reverse gate, I haven't been motivated to find out.
Last edited by jim lockwood; Sep 21, 2019 at 07:11 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2007
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Army
Since neither of those levers affect Reverse, I don't see how the combs could be at fault. Reverse has it's own lever in the rear of the tailshaft housing.
Maybe tweaking the adjustment of the reverse rod would help. Having encountered only 3 instances of being in two gears, and no notchiness going into the reverse gate, I haven't been motivated to find out.
Maybe tweaking the adjustment of the reverse rod would help. Having encountered only 3 instances of being in two gears, and no notchiness going into the reverse gate, I haven't been motivated to find out.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,203
Likes: 4,187
From: Kannapolis NC
I think if you get under the car you'll find that the shifter isn't pulling the lever quite far enough to exit reverse and then when you push forward to first, you're in both. If you adjust the reverse shifter rod just slightly to pull the lever all the way to neutral when the shifter is put in neutral the problem will disappear. If the shifter is worn and sloppy it may be a little harder to hit that sweet spot.
Last edited by 65GGvert; Sep 21, 2019 at 08:11 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 3
From: Cape May NJ - New Jersey
Thank you all very much gentlemen, I will try your suggestions about the reverse shifter rod. It has happened to me three times this year. Once being stuck in the road in front of my buddy's house who wasn't home. I couldn't get it unstuck and had to wait for a passing Good Samaritan to push me back into his driveway as I was holding down the clutch pedal! It was a little embarrassing.
Thanks again,
Tom
Thanks again,
Tom
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From: Greenville, Indiana
Le Mans Master
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From: Really Central IL Illinois
I have found on all of the transmissions I have had that the bolting / nuts on the shift levers, including reverse, find a way to loosen which makes the engagement / disengagement less precise and may fail to disengage one gear prior to entering the next gear. This is very common on 1st to 2nd shifts, but also occurs on 1st to reverse. This is compounded by worn shifter linkage and worn shifter components. This does not rule out internal problems with the transmission, but there is no common linkage between 1st and reverse.
Just .02
Ron
Just .02
Ron
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Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Fresno California
I have run into this on Muncie and Borg Warner transmissions over the years, and it has always been the shifter rods and linkage working loose and out of perfect adjustment due to wear, or improper set-up. On the early Muncies, it usually is the levers at the trans bellcranks slipping in their clamps.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
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From: Greenville, Indiana
There is one obscure part. See the pin that goes through the handle and cross shaft? That pin/hole will wear and can cause the levers not to come back into alignment between gear changes.
That pin can also break and then you have nothing.
That pin can also break and then you have nothing.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 345
Likes: 29
From: Starkville Mississippi
Your impression of the transmission being in two gears at once is correct. In the 40 years I've had my '60, it's happened to me three times.
Since this is such a seldom occurring event, I just treat the symptom as follows:
After backing up, I pull the shifter to Neutral and cautiously let out the clutch to verify the transmission really is in neutral. If it is, then I proceed to shift into 1st and drive away.
If the transmission is still partially in Reverse, I wiggle the shifter, maybe put it back into Reverse and try again, always testing to verify it's out of Reverse before going into 1st gear.
I suppose the root cause of the problem is some obscure internal wear which could be fixed by a comprehensive rebuild. My way works and is much less expensive.
Jim
Since this is such a seldom occurring event, I just treat the symptom as follows:
After backing up, I pull the shifter to Neutral and cautiously let out the clutch to verify the transmission really is in neutral. If it is, then I proceed to shift into 1st and drive away.
If the transmission is still partially in Reverse, I wiggle the shifter, maybe put it back into Reverse and try again, always testing to verify it's out of Reverse before going into 1st gear.
I suppose the root cause of the problem is some obscure internal wear which could be fixed by a comprehensive rebuild. My way works and is much less expensive.
Jim