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Just went out to garage and found this. No evidence of impact (plus I haven’t been able to drive yet due to some rear end issues. What might cause this? And now what? I’m taking it to the painter tomorrow.
Might post over in the Body and Paint forum section for comment. Possibly a combination of body flexing when bolting it down or mounting bumpers and an adhesion issue.
Been there, done that, my friend - trust me; it won't get any better from here...
If its letting go and cracking in a few places its all set to do it elsewhere....my topcoat WITH the primer started lifting off in sheets as big as 4" x 6"; I chased spot repairs until the car was completely stripped and resprayed.
when I negotiated to buy my C2 it had a concours paint finish. Except for that 1sqr" spot paint that had peeled off . I expected trouble and negotiated the price down.
Later during rebuild I took off the paint completely (was the plan anyway), it came off in printer paper sized strips. Looked like yours, and Frankie's.
The previous paint shop had put body filler, primer and finishing coats simply on top of the original color coats (there were about 3 of them from consecutive resprays ). Modern times paint technology on top of less modern times paint technology usually does not work well.
So I am afraid your paint shop won't have too much good news.
Looks like something that would happen if the bumpers were struck hard enough to flex the rear. Even with that, it's odd to come off in pieces like that. I owned a 65 that was rear ended lightly and had a crack running most of the way across above the bumpers, but it didn't peel off. It was, however painted with lacquer.
This is poor prep situation, seen it, done it way too many times. We switched to an evercoat product and use a digital scale to measure the product to hardener ratio. I was chasing down why we had delamination warranty issues and eventually threw away all our tubes of hardener to guarantee we used the exact product the manufacturer stated. At SEMA, I spoke with reps from 3M and evercoat and both suggested we used old hardener, the wrong brand of hardener or improper mixing ratios. I'm sorry to say the only resolution for your issue is to remove the bodywork around the damage, redo it and paint.
My techs have been in the restoration business for decades and needless to say telling them they weren't mixing material correctly was not recieved well. My headaches aside, I would urge you to question the next shop. And for what is worth, I will not warranty my paint unless I remove previous filler. A proper repair like this will not be inexpensive.
uh oh...maybe DUB will pipe in he is expert. I got somethign similar from body flex.heartbreaker
Get on top of it now....what area are you in ?
Austin, Tx
Originally Posted by csherman
looks like flexing or an adhesion issue - I dont see any impact
no impact. Car hasn’t left garage.
Originally Posted by jason_marshall1
This is poor prep situation, seen it, done it way too many times. We switched to an evercoat product and use a digital scale to measure the product to hardener ratio. I was chasing down why we had delamination warranty issues and eventually threw away all our tubes of hardener to guarantee we used the exact product the manufacturer stated. At SEMA, I spoke with reps from 3M and evercoat and both suggested we used old hardener, the wrong brand of hardener or improper mixing ratios. I'm sorry to say the only resolution for your issue is to remove the bodywork around the damage, redo it and paint.
My techs have been in the restoration business for decades and needless to say telling them they weren't mixing material correctly was not recieved well. My headaches aside, I would urge you to question the next shop. And for what is worth, I will not warranty my paint unless I remove previous filler. A proper repair like this will not be inexpensive.
It had a modern color/clear PPG paint job from 12 years ago. Shot it myself after removing six paint jobs with a razor and then bringing all the sharp lines back. Then, three years ago, it was sideswiped (hit and run) and sustained a gouge in the pass fender.
Haggerty paid $5k. I put another $5k in. The painter didn’t want to paint over the existing finish (which had zero adhesion issues it was done right. Sealer, primer, color, clear.
His theory is heat cold cycles. His paint adhered to the existing paint, then shrunk pulling the older paint off.
My theory is the mix was too brittle (too much reducer?) the car chips like a ******. (Doesn’t ding, it chips at the slightest impact.). But I did not want to pay for stripping it again. It had one paint job that only had one fender screwed up from azzhat. Otherwise it was good.
With the amount of work in this car, it will get repaired. It’s a driver/restomod. Not looking for perfection.
The plan is to let the car bake in the sun for a bit, finish all mechanical work and then redo the back and do some spot repairs. I trust this guy. He is as **** as they come. Mixes his own paint (has the whole computerized rig to do any color matching.) owned a boat shop doing boat finishes and painted graphics and Corvettes.
I cant hold it against him. The paint is only as good as what is under it although I think the clear coat is too brittle. I have to live with it for a bit. Frustrating as hell.
It is how the paint adheres, is what is important.
If it chips bad, it isn't adhering to it substrate.
The reasons are numerous and debatable, too fast of cure, wrong substrate, too smooth substrate, incompatible substrate, whatever. A very good painter (Ferrari certified) I know has said many problems occur because people mix products, PPG primer and Sikkens paint, for example, rather than sticking to all PPG or Sikkens or whatever; manufacturer name isn't important, using products from the same manufacturer is. There are painters who can follow directions and there are painters who think they know more than the people who made the paint...
A long time a ago, a friend had his 65 Mustang stripped and painted. A year later, he took it toethe quarter car wash,and as soon as he hit the paint with the water, the whole paint job flew off in huge sheets leaving a red primer behind. Why, i don't know.
Easy chipping is also a sign of brittleness and properly applied urethane is not know to be brittle so your theory is probably sound although I don't know enough about urethane chemistry to know exactly what causes it. I stick with products from one manufacturer and mix according to instructions and so far, so good with my limited amount of painting work. Sorry for your experience - really sucks.
Easy chipping is also a sign of brittleness and properly applied urethane is not know to be brittle so your theory is probably sound although I don't know enough about urethane chemistry to know exactly what causes it. I stick with products from one manufacturer and mix according to instructions and so far, so good with my limited amount of painting work. Sorry for your experience - really sucks.
even within the same brand, there are multiple 'systems'. I got helped by the experts from Glasurit (BASF), and there are multiple end to end lines of products that match from primer to clear coat and should not be intermixed.
I wish the OP luck, during my tribulations I had spot repairs done on the rear valance, both doors, along the hood stinger and after a bunch of fixes it stabilized (sort of) until the car was repainted. There were still a couple of weird spots that would pump up like the mumps 1/4" maybe off the car's surface on a hot day and settle down when things cooled. It was like the paint was alive and hated me... So glad I'm thru that mess now.
It looks to me that Haggerity OFFERED $5000 and you accepted it.
If the true cost to repair/refinish was $10000, your painter should put in for a supplement.
One should never accept an insurance company's offer unless the invoice for the repairs is no more than the cost.
Last edited by Roger Walling; Mar 13, 2020 at 08:46 AM.
It looks to me that Haggerity OFFERED $5000 and you accepted it.
If the true cost to repair/refinish was $10000, your painter should put in for a supplement.
One should never accept an insurance company's offer unless the invoice for the repairs is no more than the cost.
UNLESS - there was additional work done not covered by the loss...............
Your assuming the addtional 5k was just paint
It had a modern color/clear PPG paint job from 12 years ago. Shot it myself after removing six paint jobs with a razor and then bringing all the sharp lines back. Then, three years ago, it was sideswiped (hit and run) and sustained a gouge in the pass fender.
Haggerty paid $5k. I put another $5k in. The painter didn’t want to paint over the existing finish (which had zero adhesion issues it was done right. Sealer, primer, color, clear.
His theory is heat cold cycles. His paint adhered to the existing paint, then shrunk pulling the older paint off.
My theory is the mix was too brittle (too much reducer?) the car chips like a ******. (Doesn’t ding, it chips at the slightest impact.). But I did not want to pay for stripping it again. It had one paint job that only had one fender screwed up from azzhat. Otherwise it was good.
With the amount of work in this car, it will get repaired. It’s a driver/restomod. Not looking for perfection.
The plan is to let the car bake in the sun for a bit, finish all mechanical work and then redo the back and do some spot repairs. I trust this guy. He is as **** as they come. Mixes his own paint (has the whole computerized rig to do any color matching.) owned a boat shop doing boat finishes and painted graphics and Corvettes.
I cant hold it against him. The paint is only as good as what is under it although I think the clear coat is too brittle. I have to live with it for a bit. Frustrating as hell.
If it is chipping off / flaking off - there is something wrong
Paint could have been old or gotten too cold at one time
Old reducer or old hardener
Improper mixing or ratios
Strip it off - fix it and blend it in.
Paint is fickle
Paint mega problem
