My '64 has a TH350. I can vouch for it being miles ahead of a PG. But if I were doing the swap today, I'd spend the extra bucks for a 700R4 or 200R4. Might as well go all in and get an OD.

 

mr.fufu, my th350 didn't come with dipstick and tube and i haven't had any luck with the local recyclers or tranny shops.
64, i didn't have a big problem with the old powerslide it just needed to be rebuilt. it's just that since it was "almost" a direct swap it was just as easy to rebuild th350. i'm sure the over drive transmissions are nice but the complete swap is significantly more hassle and expense. and in my case, the car rarely goes anywhere besides club meets, cars and coffee and the occasional sunday drive.

 

When I purchase my ’66 327 PG I also had a ’63 4spd, 69 5spd and a 2014 7spd. Having 3 manual shifts driving in the PG was different. It was the 1st automatic Vette I owed (20+) and so I opted to keep it an auto but update it to a 200-4r (4sp overdrive). It’s a little work but made a world of difference in driving especially on the hi-way. No more 3000+ rpm driving. The overdrive with Torque Converter lock-up has me cruising around 1700 rpm at 70 MPH (3:36 rear gear).

Here is write-up and pics => Click Here

George

 

Here's a picture of the dipstick location on my '65. I can't give you a part number as I don't have that information.
Nothing fancy about this setup.... and no clearance problems at all.

 

thanks mr. P, i've ordered this one and have fingers crossed.
https://www.assaultracing.com/item/4...dipstick-black

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. My '60 has PG. It does not have trans cooling lines. If I swap out to a TH350, those do require cooling lines. So it's really not a simple bolt on. I would need to get a trans cooler in front of the radiator or find a radiator that that had an integral trans cooler.

 

correct

 

That's exactly why I went the TH350 route instead of a 200-4R. First of all, the swap is made easier by the fact that there's less stuff to put in and go wrong (e.g. fiddly TV cable, need to fabricate and weld in a rear trans mount, install electrics to control the lockup converter, etc.). I figure I get 100% of the fun.with less stuff to go wrong and for about half the price of an OD auto.

Just tell a builder you want to put in an overdrive trans in a C2 and watch the price go up! I got quotes from all the big names (BowTie, Art Carr, etc) so I did my homework.

Of course, installing another transmission took my matching #'s car further from stock. But it was well worth it. I have the original PG trans and all the 'jewelry' that's needed to convert the car back to stock if the next guy wants to do it. But, I'll bet nobody would want to do that after they drove a PG car and then mine with its TH350.

 

The steel dipstick and tube from Assault should do the trick for you. It will require careful bending to clear the bellhousing and on up into the proper position between the coil bracket and the ignition shielding. Note that Mr. Precision's car does not have the shielding, which gives him extra leeway as to where the dipstick tube can be positioned. I also see that the top of his dipstick tube seems to sit rather higher behind the motor than on mine.

Note the dipstick top 'curl' (the part you pull on with your finger) on the Assault dipstick doesn't have the OEM appearance. Here's what mine looks like:



I got the original dipstick and tube with the core TH350 when I bought it. The seller told me he'd got the trans from another guy who told him it had come out of a late ''70's Monte Carlo.

A last note - you can't mix and match dipsticks and tubes because they are mated for different applications. For example, a truck might have a longer tube and longer dipstick to match, vs. a passenger car. Likewise, an intermediate car could have a shorter dipstick and tube than a full-sized model. Mixing tubes and dipsticks will give you incorrect fluid readings. Does this make sense?

 

When I purchased my 300 hp 66 six years ago it had a PG in it. I was not very happy with the performance so I swapped in a TH350, slight gain in fun factor but still not any added performance. The following year I went with a Tremec TKO500 with a 3:36 rear gear. Other than AC the best upgrade I've done. If I were to do it again, I would go with the TKO600 mated with a 3:55 or 3:70 rear gear.

 

Sorry Mr. Fufu, while it pains me to disagree with a fellow Vancouverite, that is just not correct. There is no need to fabricate/weld a tranny mount. Simple bolt in tranny mount provided by Bowtie. I would never allow any welding on the frame of my car. The only welding was shortening the drive shaft by 2”. No electrics to control the lockup or anything else. You may be confusing a 4L60E which clearly does have electronics to be dealt with. The installation cost (at least here in Southern California) is the same no matter which way you go whether a 200R4, a 700R4 or a TH350. I know, I just did it 6 months ago and explored all of the options.

You should check out the pricing on Bowtie of their various transmissions. A low end rebuilt 700R4 is $1450. Your low end rebuilt TH350 is not going to be significantly less than that and if you compare apples to apples, there is no contest. The TH350 is simply a lesser transmission. So why settle for less for the same price? The powerglide is also a lesser transmission but at least the purists have the argument that it was the “born with” transmission. I don't see the same argument with a TH350.

 

Hi Ron,
Sounds like you went with a 700R4 for your swap, as you had to shorten the driveshaft. Did you buy the trans from BowTie? Did they do the installation? Glad to hear you are happy with it.

Yes I too did a LOT of research before deciding which way to go. As far as BowTie, they must have changed their offerings since I spoke with them 2+ years ago. First of all, the guy I spoke to was arrogant and dismissive of my questions and seemed to have little interest in my business. Maybe he had a bad day. I then checked with Art Carr who was much more helpful. I dismissed the 700R4 because I didn't want to cut the driveshaft on my car. I also heard this swap may require some mods to the tunnel, and also heard some guys don't like the steep drop from first to second gear.

So, I then considered the 200R4. That one definitely needs a rear trans mount to be welded to the frame. I didn't really want to do that either. Both this and the 700R4 require extra circuitry to control the lockup converter. Art Carr disables the lockup feature in his 200R4's due to the minimal advantage at cruise and to forgo the electrics required. The other thing I wasn't keen on is the need to use a TV cable. I read stories of burned up transmissions due to a misadjusted cable. I'm sure with proper setup that wouldn't be a problem so wasn't a deal breaker for me.

The other major consideration for me was that I live in Canada. Our currency is worth less, and I have to contend with the border. You've probably been outside Canada long enough to have forgotten how much of a hassle and extra expense is involved in importing something big and heavy like a transmission.

First of all, buying from a vendor in the USA means I must pay in US dollars. That adds a 35% cost premium right off the bat. Then there's shipping up here to Vancouver, with duty and brokerage fees to be paid to get the item across the border Then, I'd have to find a shop here in Vancouver to install and set up the transmission. They wouldn't warranty the transmission as it would have been built by someone else. What would I do if the trans is defective for some (remote) reason? If I have a problem (and believe me, I read enough stories of bad transmissions, even from reputable vendors like BowTie and Carr) to give me pause on this issue. Assume the vendor would warranty the trans, but I'd still be on the hook to pay the cost to re & re the trans plus the hassle of shipping it back to the States

Let's compare costs. Bowtie sells a low end rebuilt 700R4 (or 200R4) for $1,450 US. According to their website to this I must add a $200 core charge, Then I need a torque converter ($339), and TV cable ($80). Let's say I'm only charged $100 for shipping up to Canada. Now I'm up to $2,089 US. Add the 35% exchange rate to which brings me to $2,955 Canadian. I have to pay 12% sales tax upon importation to Canada, bringing the cost to $3,309 Cdn. Then I must pay brokerage and handling fees (unless I go to the border to clear the item myself and wait in line, etc). Let's say brokerage and duty is conservatively only $100 Cdn. That gets me the trans finally landed in Canada for about $3,409 Cdn.

Then I have to find a shop to do the swap. Let's be conservative and say I find a shop that'll do the swap for $1,000 plus 12% tax. Now I'm up to $4,529 Cdn. Oh, in this I forgot to include the shifter conversion kit ($150 US) to use the stock PG shifter with the new trans...

Here's what I chose to do instead. I bought a TH350 core for $150 (all prices Canadian). I got a transmission shop to rebuid it for $800, including a 2200 stall converter. The shop then swapped the PG out and put in the TH350 for $1,200, tax in. I needed a kickdown bracket and cable ($75), plus a shifter conversion kit from Shiftworks ($175). Total cost: $2,400 Cdn, or equivalent to only $1,544 US. That's out the door, on the road for about the same cost as what Bowtie would charge me for a bare rebuilt 700R4 alone, without the converter and the other stuff needed for the swap. Plus,I got a full warranty on the transmission and the installation so lowering my risk if something went wrong. I think I made the right choice - i didn't spend an arm and a leg, and the car performs WAY better.

To each his own. If I lived in California I would probably do what you did. Drive over to Bowtie or Art Carr and ask them to drop in one of their rebuilt OD transmissions. But, short of driving down there and having this done (believe me, I did consider it!) I had to contend with the reality that I live in Canada. That did change the equation for me, and I thought readers of this thread should know the full story behind my choice.

I grant you the 700R4 or 200R4 are arguably superior transmissions in that they have overdrive and lockup. But for the driving I do (70% urban), and the amount of miles I put on my '67 (about 1,500 max per year), the TH350 was a bit of a no brainer in terms of bang for the buck.

 

Yes, Mr. Fufu, cost issues are certainly different in Vancouver. I can remember getting my dad’s C4 in his 66 Thelma & Louise T Bird rebuilt in North Van for a case of Blue and 2 beaver pelts.

My only point was you have to compare apples to apples. For most of us in the US there is a ready supply of rebuilt transmissions. The purists have the corner on the logic of retaining the powerglide. But if you go beyond that and want something else then there really is no logical reason to go with a TH350. For most of us it costs about the same to rebuild and install a TH350 as a 700R4 and a TH350 is always going to be a lesser transmission.

Of course there is always the argument of where to stop (personally I wouldn’t mind a 7 speed automatic with paddle shifters) and so there can be a case made for a 4L60E and more exotics as well. But if you want a simple bolt in transmission with no tunnel modifications, no welding and no electronics then IMHO the 700R4 is the way to go (of course if you can live with those “issues” then certainly the 4L60E is the way to go). But at the end of the day there is simply no room at the Inn for the TH350 whether it be on the basis of a purist, an ease of adaptation or the best kick *** automatic available.

 

It all depends on what you want to do with your car, and why you bought it.

If your '63 is all original and you're concerned about the swap affecting the value, you have two routes to go.

1. Keep it as it is and simply enjoy it for what it is. No downside really, other than you'll have to accept the Powerglide and how it drives. I drove my '67 for 3 years after I bought it with its original PG and enjoyed it all the same. It was a willing enough piece of machinery and for cruising the PG is just fine. You won't get any more hi-fives for having swapped in another transmission, as folks are already drooling over your classic Corvette.
2. You can swap in a more modern automatic and enjoy the improvements in driveability that this would provide: better standing starts, a 2nd gear for passing, and if you go with an OD auto - less revs at highway speeds and the attendant modest increase in fuel economy.

But, how do you intend on using your '63? Will you be going on long road trips? Do you mostly drive around town? Is your locale hilly?

If your use of the car will be limited to the occasional Sunday drives, then why change the Powerglide? In my case I wanted to take my '67 on longer road trips to shows. I also wanted more 'pep' off the line, with the flexibility of an intermediate gear for climbing hills and passing. And I like tinkering with stuff so was willing to go to the expense of swapping in another trans. I've detailed in another post the considerations involved in my decision to go with the TH350 vs. the overdrive models (200R4 and 700R4), and cost was one of these. I also didn't want to make any changes to the car that couldn't be undone by a future owner should they wish to put the car back to stock.

I have a '67, and because you have a '63, there's another consideration for you to be aware of. If your car is an early production model (up to VIN# 6951) then your Powerglide is air cooled. Later production went to water-cooled, with a external transmission cooler and cooling lines installed. These cars have a different radiator support with holes for the cooling lines. If your car is one of these early ones you'll need to also add a trans cooler, lines, and modify the radiator support.

The other thing is that the '63 had a unique shifter arrangement. This was changed in '64 and again in '65. There used to be kits available from Shiftworks to modify the later '65 and up stock shifter assembly to work with a 3 or 4 speed automatic transmission, but I don't see this item offered on their website now. Also, they don't appear to carry any kits to convert the earlier '63/'64 PG shifter for use with a later automatic. I've heard some have been able to adapt the stock shifter to work, but the limitation is you can't select 1st gear and the safety neutral switch doesn't work properly.

Hope this helps inform your decision

 

I would like any info you have on switching to a TH350. Thanks

 

The trans cooler on my 67 is an air cooler in front of the AC condenser. Is that good enough for a 700-4R ?

 

The main issue with the Powerglide is the 1.76 first gear ratio. Compared to the 2.52 first gear ratio of the TH350 or Muncie 4 speed, this makes for sluggish off the line performance. Performance in high gear is the same. I've dealt with swapping 2 speed Powerglides and Super Turbine 300's (Pontiac) with TH350 transmissions, and with NO other changes, the car accelerated like it had picked up 100 horsepower. If I had an all original '63 SWC that came with a Powerglide, I'd probably leave it be, based on what these cars are worth these days. Money and value aside, I'd swap in a TH350 or a Muncie 4 speed in a minute....it would totally transform the car.

 

I drove a 71 Chevelle with a 307 and a PG in college and the whirring, swishy sound sound of the shift is imprinted in my mind forever. Adjusting the low band did wonders for the shift quality though.

 

I learned to drive on my dad’s ‘61 Impala with a 283 and pg. With a lot of practice, feathering the accelerator just right, and the planets aligned, I could chirp the tires on the 1st to 2nd shift.

Steve

 

If I power-braked my dad's '69 350 powered Suburban just right before I turned a right hand corner from a stop, I could get that big 16" split rim-mounted 10 ply truck tire spinning fast enough for a small cloud of smoke and about 15 feet of rubber. This was the 70's, I was 16-17, and the truck was worn out with over 250,000 miles on the clock. When you're a kid, you do what you gotta do!!