The three pins on the back of the switch are for the up / down / and common. Put the meter on ohms. Put the negative (black) lead of your ohm meter on the common (upper right on your picture, I think). Touch the positive (red) lead of the ohm meter to either of the other two pins and rock the switch one way or the other. When rocked in the correct direction, the ohm meter should read near zero. Then test the other pin and rock the switch in the other direction. See what you get.

The barrel connectors are in the connector that fit on these pins. Mine were loose and not fitting tightly on the pins. I used a straight pin forced down on the outside of the barrel connectors to tighten them up (close the gap in the circular barrel). Then I lubed them with NO-OX.

Ron

 

Thanks for all the detail Ron. I’m going to try to do each of the things you mentioned.

 

This won't fix anything, but it WILL tell you if everything from the switch forward and that the power is good, so basically it proves the switch is or is not the problem.

The 12v is ALWAYS on the red wire, key off or key on. The green wire goes to the headlight motors to turn them in the closed direction. The black/yellow wire (sometimes it is yellow) goes to the motors to turn them in the up or open position.

So if you pull the plug off and use a paper clip, needle nose pliers, jumper lead, anything that is conductive and connect the red wire hole to the green wire hole, the two motors will try to roll down as long as you leave it touching (shown by green lines on the picture)

If you move the jumper to the red and black yellow connector positions, the motors will try to roll in the up or open position for as long as you leave it touching.(shown by reddish lines in picture)

Shorting the green to black/yellow does nothing and won't hurt anything if you accidentally connect them, no power is present.

If the motors roll up and down as you do these tests, the voltage supply is good, the wires from the switch to the motors, all connections to the motors, and the motors are working properly and the problem is in the switch contacts. If one side works but not the other, there is a problem between the switch and the motor for the direction that doesn't work. If neither side works, measure the red wire for power. It connects to a circuit breaker mounted on the driver's side kick panel. The breaker has no reset button, it resets automatically when the short is removed. If you don't have 12v on both lugs of the circuit breaker you have lost a connection to the 12v supply. There are no fuses for it, just the circuit breaker.
In summary, all the switch does is short the wires together exactly the same way you just did with the jumper. Using this you can 100% eliminate the switch as a possible problem.



This is what the circuit breaker looks like mounted high on the driver's side kick panel. Note: If you have power windows, there are two circuit breakers, one for lights, one for windows.

 

Thanks for all the detail! I’ll go through these steps and report back.

 

One thing not mentioned is, if the copper contacts are not positioned equally high, may be a part of the, work, no work issue. Look at them carefully for the position. If adjustment is necessary, do so VERY carefully and ONLY the amount needed to equalize them. Dennis

 

This is turning into an odd one. First I did the ohm test suggested by Ron. Flipped the switch, 0. Switch the wires, flip switch the opposite way, both tests go to 0. Check. Next I cleaned the inside of the connectors on the harness and used a push pin to tighten them up a bit, being very gentle. Then I used the jumper wire like 65Gvert said. Buckets roll up quickly then switch the jumper and they quickly roll back down. Perfect. I attached the lubed up switch and tried to flip them up. I heard the motors going. I go out to look at them and they're 3/4 of the way up. Shoot. I try to hit up again. Nothing. I push the switch down. They go down quickly. I hit up again. Nothing at all. I waited a few minutes and hit up again. Nothing. This is the exact thing that happened before. They roll 3/4 open, won't go all the way, roll down, then die until next time. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[QUOTE=jc03;1602123351]This is turning into an odd one. First I did the ohm test suggested by Ron. Flipped the switch, 0. Switch the wires, flip switch the opposite way, both tests go to 0. Check. Next I cleaned the inside of the connectors on the harness and used a push pin to tighten them up a bit, being very gentle. Then I used the jumper wire like 65Gvert said. Buckets roll up quickly then switch the jumper and they quickly roll back down. Perfect. I attached the lubed up switch and tried to flip them up. I heard the motors going. I go out to look at them and they're 3/4 of the way up. Shoot. I try to hit up again. Nothing. I push the switch down. They go down quickly. I hit up again. Nothing at all. I waited a few minutes and hit up again. Nothing. This is the exact thing that happened before. They roll 3/4 open, won't go all the way, roll down, then die until next time. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE

65Gvert may have some better info. I would check the breaker on the red wire to see if it is kicking out when the buckets stop. I thin it is bi-metal and may take a little while to reset if it gets hot from the current running thru it. You can hook the meter to ground (black lead) and test both sides of the breaker. If it is good, you should get 12v on both sides.
If the breaker is not kicking out, you get to play with the switch again - move the connector on the pins while trying to move the buckets.
If the BREAKER is kicking out, it could be weak or you need to use the VOM meter on ohms to check the resistance of the wires from the switch to the motors. I could be a poor connection, corrosion, or a motor grounding out, but I don't think so. Like I said, 65Gvert generally has better guesses than I do.

Ron

 

IF they work fine with the jumper, but not with the switch, there is a problem in the switch. The jumper is just replacing the contacts in the switch. Problem could be in switch connector, loose wire in insulation, spread female connections, corroded. If you double check the operation with the jumper and it's good, I'd order the pigtail for the switch and change it out.

 

Thanks for the info. Where would you recommend I order the switch. Are there any American made ones out there?

 

All of the post I have read on the replacement switches available said they didn't match the original 'HEADLIGHTS" stamping on the bezel around the toggle. Frankie the Fink had a couple of posts with pictures.
If you really think it is the switch, they are so simple that I can't believe it cannot be repaired unless the points are burnt up or the rocker worn. If you would like to gamble postage, PM me, I'll give you my address, and I'll take a look at it and send it back. I won't charge anything to fix it (if I can) just postage,
I just like the challenge and find it hard to believe the points in the switch are intermittently problematic. Sometimes a second look is successful. What part of the country are you in?

Ron

 

The repros look like crap but work well. You can buy a repro take it apart and put the inner working parts into your original housing. It will look like nothing has changed and only you will be the wiser.
No, there aren't any USA made repros.

 

Thanks for the offer Ron. The intervals of my switch look real good and it tested correctly on the ohm meter. I have to think it’s somewhere in the connection between the switch and the harness. I’ve been backed up with work lately but I’m gonna take another run at it soon. If that doesn’t work out I’ll reach out for sure.

 

As 65GGvert said, if the headlight motors work well with the jumper at the switch, the problem has to be in the connector to the switch or in the switch.I am not trying to steal anyone’s thunder or insult your ability, but this is a summary of what is recommended in this thread and what I would do:

Perform all in car tests with all other electrical devices shut off (including the headlights) so you are getting full 12v + to the switch and motors.I have found that when the engine is not running, intermittent electrical problems may occur but go away when the alternator is putting out the extra volt or so. Try it both ways

Every test that you have performed has to be repeated 3 or 4 times now that you have an intermittent problem. My bet is still the barrel connectors are not tight. The gap in the barrel connector musts be almost completely closed and fit tightly on the pins with a good conductive electrical grease like NO-OX. A dielectric grease will not work to improve the electrical contact.If you create arc spots on the barrel connectors while testing them, you will need to remove /smooth them with a proper size drill bit (turned by hand) or similar tool to restore the contact surface. For testing, I used two pieces of #10 or #12 solid copper wire to put in the connector and touched the ends of the wire together to keep from arcing the barrel connectors.

Take the switch apart again and inspect for misalignment of the contacts, bent contacts, arc spots, etc. Reassemble and test the switch again before you mount it. Test it with the Ohm meter 3 or 4 times in each direction. You can also use a test light, etc. If your measurements are not less than 0.5 ohm, you don’t have good contact internally in the switch, IMO, 65GGvert may have a better number.

Note: you may need to allow some time between up and down cycles to allow the thermal breaker to cool off or it will trip as designed. Maybe 65GGvert can give you some guidance on a time period. You may want to put a VOM meter on the motor side of the breaker to monitor it. A weak breaker can create your problem.

Put the switch back in the car, but not mounted. Make sure the connector is tight. Test it 3 or 4 times in each direction. If you get intermittent operation, hold the switch in that position while moving the connector around (twist, in, out) on the pins as much as you can without breaking things. Move the wires around coming out of the connector to see if you have a broken one making and breaking contact.

Remount the switch and test it 3 or 4 times in each direction. Remember to allow time between cycles for the circuit breaker to cool off.

I feel for your frustration, I am fighting a 300 disc CD player has an intermittent motor problem. On my 3rd attempt to find the problem. I am about to start throwing parts at it, starting with a bottle of Gray Goose and a 9# hammer on my work bench as a final resolution of the problem should it fail another test.

Good luck,

Ron

 

my 64 came with a standard old style toggle switch that works well but looks like crap.
i was told the reproduction switches are not reliable?

 

The repros work fine but they just dont look right. ( but better than a toggle switch lol) IMO you are better off finding an original that is in good shape.

 

Thanks Ron. I take no offense at all. I repeated the tests when I did them but plan on going back to the beginning and going through the list again and duplicating each test several times. I agree in thinking the barrel connectors are not making good contact. I’ll report back when they’re done.

 

Thanks! I used a small Allen wrench to pop the clips out and then folded some sandpaper, pressed it between the contacts, and rubbed a few times. Now my headlights go up. And down.

Up always worked, but down was hit and miss.

 

Must must be either in the wrong thread or something got deleted. Or maybe just tacked onto the thread as information.
This was not the original poster for this thread.

 

Forgive me for this rambling thinking: Every circuit requires the feed (12v +) and the ground (-) to make a complete circuit. Thus if the grounds (one at each motor) are intermittent, (not likely both at the same time), the circuit is broken. I don't recall if you said that when the buckets stopped if the motors were still running (mechanical gear problem) or if the buckets stopped at the same time as the motors stopped. If both stop at the same time, I am thinking it has to be in the switch circuit or breaker or a bad connection on those items.
Anyway, you might want to clean the connections for the ground wires on the motors and the front support as part of this troubleshooting.
If the buckets are not both stopping at the same time or the motors run without the buckets moving, I have been leading you down the "yellow brick road" without your "ruby slippers".

Ron

 

Also your volt meter should go back to zero if the buckets stop and the motors stop. Watch it as you play with the switch.