Borgeson Pressure Reduction
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
Borgeson Pressure Reduction
I have the Borgeson box on my '67. I really like the steering but it is a bit too "twitchy" and I have read that the fix is to install the Borgeson kit to reduce the pressure from the stock GM pump. Wondering if anyone has done this, what they though of it after the modification and how many washers from the kit they installed? I ask because it involves dumping the fluid each time you change the washers and on a '67 BB pump, that means pulling the alternator to refill the pump each time.
Maybe someone has a different fix......?
TIA,
Steve
Maybe someone has a different fix......?
TIA,
Steve
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 381
From: Strongsville, OH
2016 C2 of the Year Finalist
A search will give you many posts on the Borgeson pressure topics. Some have used the Borgeson internal pump kit with anywhere from one to five washers being needed and others have used a pressure reducing valve that screws into the pump to replace the one there. I think it all depends on your personal preference of how much assist is too much.
I’m going to try the valve changeout recommended by several here but I haven’t done it yet so I’m no help to you on how it works.
At least neither of the methods suggested to reduce the assist are expensive but I understand your need to make it as easy as possible. Here’s what I bought to install.
https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...rsistYmm=false
I’m going to try the valve changeout recommended by several here but I haven’t done it yet so I’m no help to you on how it works.
At least neither of the methods suggested to reduce the assist are expensive but I understand your need to make it as easy as possible. Here’s what I bought to install.
https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...rsistYmm=false
Last edited by dkleather; Nov 30, 2020 at 10:20 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
Thanks for the info. I had looked at a lot of the videos before I posted. Was hoping someone before me had done it and had a recommendation on the number of washers to use. It's a bit of a PITB on my car because the alternator has to come off to fill the pimp so if I get it wring, I will have to remove the alternator and dump the fluid more than once.
I called Borgeson tech support and he recommended starting with two washers. He said that would drop the pressure by about 200 PSI which he said would make a significant difference. I'll probably order the kit today.
Thanks,
Steve
I called Borgeson tech support and he recommended starting with two washers. He said that would drop the pressure by about 200 PSI which he said would make a significant difference. I'll probably order the kit today.
Thanks,
Steve
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 334
From: Reno Nevada
Adding fluid to power bb steering pump is made easier by modifying the upper bracket that blocks reservoir cap removal.. remove bracket and grind out a half moon section. Cap can then be removed for service.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,317
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From: St Louis MO
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
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From: Magnolia Texas
Larry,
Thanks a lot for the info. When I had it aligned, I had them put in all the caster they could but I have not slotted the arms. If I understand your post correctly, it sounds like you would recommend the 91032918 flow restrictor AND 3 shims from the Borgeson kit, correct? I don't mind ordering the flow restrictor at all if you think that will improve the situation. I have an aluminum headed big block out front so it's relatively light and the steering is quite "twitchy" at speed.
I did this install in 2009 but I've always felt the steering was too light and decided it's time to address it.
Thanks again!
Steve
Thanks a lot for the info. When I had it aligned, I had them put in all the caster they could but I have not slotted the arms. If I understand your post correctly, it sounds like you would recommend the 91032918 flow restrictor AND 3 shims from the Borgeson kit, correct? I don't mind ordering the flow restrictor at all if you think that will improve the situation. I have an aluminum headed big block out front so it's relatively light and the steering is quite "twitchy" at speed.
I did this install in 2009 but I've always felt the steering was too light and decided it's time to address it.
Thanks again!
Steve
Last edited by 67*427; Nov 30, 2020 at 12:05 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,317
Likes: 111
From: St Louis MO
Another approach would be to reduce the multiplication of wheel deflection to steering wheel input. The factory ratio was 16:1 but the Borgeson upgrade reduced that to 12.6:1. If one moves the toe links from the inner holes on the steering arms to the outer holes, the overall ratio will be reduced to something in between. I was considering doing that but because I have bump steering blocks on the steering arms, I decided not to do it.
Let us know what you select and how you like it!
Let us know what you select and how you like it!
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
I already have the tie rods on the outer holes. I ordered the flow reducer and the Borgeson pressure reducer kit. Based on your experience, I plan to go with three shims and the flow reducer. I'll let you know how it goes but I bet it helps a lot.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
Moxie62,
You suggest 5 shims which will drop the pressure from 1350 to 700 PSI. What do you mean by a pressure reducing valve? That's what the washers do. Is that recommendation based on experience?
Steve
You suggest 5 shims which will drop the pressure from 1350 to 700 PSI. What do you mean by a pressure reducing valve? That's what the washers do. Is that recommendation based on experience?
Steve
Safety Car
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Race Director
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Safety Car
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Bornem
it's been a while when I dived into this on my 64 with Borgesson. I remember when I went up to the 5 shims the feel in the steering wheel was exactly what I wanted (like in speed corners where I wanted the steering wheel to firm up), but in slow speed manoeuvring I got some 'stuttering' in the pump. I got some leaks in the pump (nothing to do with the shims), so I replaced it. Have not taken time to retune with the shims.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,270
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From: Macedonia Ohio
Interesting thread. When I first installed the Borgeson steering I retained the stock pump. It lasted about two years and failed. I had noticed that it would make a whining noise at low speeds. Not sure what caused it. I replaced it with a high performance pump and have not had any problems since. Steering is nice.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
Thanks for all the replies. Mine was originally installed about 15,000 miles ago with a rebuilt pump. It has worked very well with no noise but it has always been WAY too sensitive for my tastes. Based on the comments and experience from larrywalk, I'll be installing three washers from the Borgeson kit and the flow control valve from Speedway Motors. The Borgeson kit is to arrive today and then the install will happen. Just in case anyone reads this in the future, the O ring in the flow restrictor to the high pressure hose needed to be replaced and it took a bunch of searching to find it. The size is a -903 (7.65mm ID x 1.63mm C/S or .301 ID x .064 C/S) and it needs to be made of Viton or the fluid will damage it. The Gm part number is 26001594.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 859
Likes: 53
From: Magnolia Texas
Well, here's the update.
Based on Larrywalk's experience and expertise', I installed two washers from the Borgeson kit which gave me .058 spacing. That included the original thin factory washer for a total of three. I also installed the Speedway Motors 3GPM to 2GPM flow reducer. Those two changes made the steering just about perfect for my tastes. It now has very positive road feel and the extreme sensitivity is gone! I would strongly recommend anyone doing the Borgeson kit consider these changes. Before, at highway speeds, I felt uncomfortable and had to really stay on top of the steering. Now, it's much more relaxed and predictable. My thanks to Larrywalk for taking the time to do his original write-up and for referring me to it.
Steve
Based on Larrywalk's experience and expertise', I installed two washers from the Borgeson kit which gave me .058 spacing. That included the original thin factory washer for a total of three. I also installed the Speedway Motors 3GPM to 2GPM flow reducer. Those two changes made the steering just about perfect for my tastes. It now has very positive road feel and the extreme sensitivity is gone! I would strongly recommend anyone doing the Borgeson kit consider these changes. Before, at highway speeds, I felt uncomfortable and had to really stay on top of the steering. Now, it's much more relaxed and predictable. My thanks to Larrywalk for taking the time to do his original write-up and for referring me to it.
Steve
Last edited by 67*427; Dec 14, 2020 at 01:34 PM.
