My 327/300hp '67 has developed a starting problem. Engine is stock, new Holley 3810 installed last year.

Here's what's happening:

• Choke plate is closing.
• When I pull the throttle by hand I see fuel jetting into the carb
• Starter turns motor over but no start. I tried cranking and pumping gas, etc. to no avail.
• Took top shield off and visually inspected distributor and coil area. Everything seems in place, no loose connections I could see
• Ignition parts all replaced within the last 1,000 miles, including plugs, coil, condenser, points.
• Plug wires tested last year and was told they are fine

Engine runs great once it starts, but has become progressively harder to start, esp. when cold. In the past few weeks I've had to crank it a fair bit before it will fire. Once started and engine warmed up it will restart easier, but still a little balky. Whatever is causing the hard starting has now got to the point where the engine would not start this morning.

Could this be a bad coil?

What would cause progressively worsening hard starting?

Thanks for your advice/tips.

 

Open the choke plate a little and see what happens. I think choke is set wrong.

 

Gradually deteriorating electrical connections could contribute. Try a jumper from the + terminal of the battery to the + side of the coil and see what happens....don't run long this way as the ignition system is getting a full 12V with this workaround.

 

Does it try to start or not just start at all? I would pull a easy plug and see if you you have spark. If spark you know it’s a gas problem

 

sounds like the wire that runs from the "I" terminal on the starter to the coil has an issue

 

^This! And Frankie’s suggestion will answer the question.

 

I agree, you should check to see if you have spark at the plugs. You can put a new plug in the end of a plug wire and ground the plug to see if it fires when you crank the engine. You can also put your timing light on and check for the light as you are cranking it. You'll need a remote starter switch or the help of a friend to manipulate the key.
Then if you have no spark at the plugs, I hope you have a VOM multimeter and / or a dwell meter. If you get a dwell reading while cranking the engine, you have voltage to the points. You may just need to adjust them to about 28-32 degrees. If not don't get a reading, you need to check for the following:
Check the voltage at the positive side of the coil with the key on, It should be 5 vdc or close to it with the key in the on position and 9 - 10 vdc while cranking in the start position when the starter is turning.. Don't take too long with the key on as the 12 vdc will burn the points.
If you don't have about 5 vdc at the coil with just the key in the on position, check for voltage at the bottom of the resistor. A lack of voltage at the bottom of the resistor means it is bad. Even with a bad resistor, the engine should fire, but die when you release the key from the start position,
I you don't have 9-10 vdc while cranking, you are not getting starting voltage from the ignition switch thru the solenoid on the starter to the coil. Could be wire or ignition switch, but progressively worse starting doesn't fit that problem.
This should narrow it down to the coil or the points and condenser. With the key off, check the resistance on the coil - I can't remember the primary and secondary values you should get, but someone will. If the coil measures will, go on to the points
If it got progressively worse, it could be the excessive cranking during starting has burned the points and they need to be adjusted or dressed up or replaced. 2000 miles shouldn't cause the points to burn on a well tuned engine, but they can wear/burn quickly with excessive starting. Also check the capacitor as it could be shorting out under load and check the wire to the coil for resistance while moving it around.

 

Check the white resistor on firewall. Many times a loose connection or resistor itself. With key off put ohm meter across two terminals ... should be in the 2 ohm range!

 

If the ballast resistor is open or wire off, the engine will start and run as long as you hold the key in the start position, then die when you release it to run. Follow the directions given earlier and determine if you have spark. You need to know that. See if you have spark in the start position, if you do, coil and points and wire between are good. If you don't add a jumper wire from the battery positive to the coil positive (like Frankie said) and try again. Post back your results for more info.

 

Update - last night got time to look into my no-start problem.

Over the weekend I put the trickle charger on the battery to ensure a full charge.

I took off the shielding and poked around the coil to see if any connections were loose. All seems tight and okay. Didn't take the distributor cap off.
Then I checked the ballast resistor - just a visual to see if the wiring at top and bottom were tight, which they are.
Lastly I pushed on the two bulkhead connectors at the firewall to ensure they were on tight.

Then I attempted to start the car. I pressed the pedal to the floor (to set choke), then held it halfway down while cranking. The car started!

I did a few cycles of engine off and restart and these were successful. However, it looks like my no-start problem is more like a hard-start problem, as it never fires up on the first try and I have to retry 3-4+ times to get it to fire.

My next step will be to test the electrical connections as per your suggestions and see if I can determine where the issue is. Seems like there is a weak contact or connection... somewhere! Not so handy with electrical stuff, but time to learn!

How do I test the coil? Do these slowly go bad over time? I do have a spare one that I could swap in, but am hesitant to start replacing parts without knowing what the problem is.

Based on my report above, what could the issue be?

Thanks for all your good suggestions - I'm learning a lot.

Alex

 

I would focus on the battery, and cables at this point

 

sounds like the ignition shielding is grounding something out, look for chaffed wires or a bad coil wire, also seen the plastic shield inside the shielding cause problems

 

infamous red wire problem?
"Lastly I pushed on the two bulkhead connectors at the firewall to ensure they were on tight."

 

The red wire in the bulkhead connector will not cause those symptoms.

 

It sounds like degraded tune up components (points and plugs, etc.).
I went thru a similar event trying to find a slight miss at idle. I got so frustrated I started swapping parts even though I know better. Final repair was take it out and drive it on the highway for about 10 minutes. I had been idling the car in the garage (for hours) and the plugs got a bit of carbon build up on them.
In my opinion, bottom line is troubleshoot first and then if you decide to begin swap parts, do so one at a time and remove the one added if it doesn't solve the problem, before you install the next guess part. That way you find what the problem was.
Basic tools are a must: (timing light, dwell meter, VOM multimeter, vacuum guage, etc.) and are cheaper than a trip to the local mechanics shop.

 

This^^^^. If stock, probably needs a simple tune up: points, condenser, plugs, carb adjust. Should be done every 12-15K miles to keep it running sharp. These aren't like modern cars built after 1980. These cars actually benefit from routine engine tune ups.

 

GTOguy is right - these old school engines need regular tuning to stay sharp.

But, I don't think tired tune-up parts are the cause of my hard starting. I replaced all the tune up parts including coil in the last 1,500 miles. The only thing not replaced was the spark plug wires which were tested by a mechanic who said they were fine. And, the engine runs like a top once it starts.

Nowhere Man suggested checking the battery and cables. But, if those were an issue then the car would not crank over the engine endlessly. I have plenty of 'juice' going to the starter motor.

I haven't used my little multimeter to test the coil, ballast resistor, etc. I'm fairly ignorant around electrical stuff and am wary of putting leads to things without knowing what I'm doing. Last year I fried a fusible link by hooking up my timing light incorrectly!

But hear this - The past two nights I've tried a new starting procedure that I read about in a related thread. Push the gas pedal to the floor TWICE, then crank. I did this the last 3 times I tried to start the car, and it started right up!

So maybe my issue was the kerfuddle of not enough gas in the float bowls, choke maybe not setting right, and then me flooding the engine by pumping the gas too many times. Result: no start!

Now off to see if I can repeat the above starting procedure successfully once more...

 

Ballast resistor has to be OK or it wouldn't run. The coil is probably alright as it does start and run.
I think the owner who doesn't think he knows anything is a lot smarter than I am, as all I did with my suggestions is to further frustrate you as you were already depressed.
Sometimes free advice is worth what you pay for it. And too much advice is worse than not enough.
My apology.
Ron

 

No worries Ron!

Advice/suggestions always gladly received as I'm open to learning new things about our cars.

This morning I again started the car successfully using the two pump then crank method. Seems to confirm my issue as fuel related, not electrical.

Even thought the Holley 3810 is only a year old, it seems these carbs can be finicky and are sensitive to improper choke, float level, and easy to flood.

So, all good for now.

Alex

 

Maybe its just me, but over the years I've learned that whenever my intuition tells me its electrical, its fuel. And vice versa. So I just don't trust my intuition any more on engine start issues.