Marshall,
My apology for inference that your friend was the BUBBA. It may have been long before him. From your description, someone has rewired it incorrectly for a points application. Without pictures or seeing it, I cannot understand how it is starting and running with the stock GM starter and points ignition system. Pictures would be a great help.
The black / pink wire from the starter solenoid provides 12VDC power to start the car in the start position. Now thinking about it, he car may crank, but will not start until the ignition switch is release to the ON position and with the engine still rolling, 12 volts is applied to the points. 12VDC to the coil full time will increase the voltage to the plugs and thus give better spark.
You have verified you have points, so I am guessing you are at risk of frequent replacement with the current wiring. It will run great with the full 12VDC to the coil and points after starting.
Put the black lead of your VOM on the battery negative post or other good ground (engine block, etc.) and with the meter on VDC, measure the voltage with the red lead on the positive (+) post of the coil.
I still would not rewire anything until you sort out the wiring. It may be wired correct for a system which I do not understand..

 

Guys wait a minute here, I know what a points and condenser set looks like. I have been under the hoods of American muscle since 1978. This is my 2nd corvette and I just took delivery of it on July 15th. I am making an experienced observation of what I have and asking for an educated answer to a observation.
For clarification so we don't go down any more rabbit holes..... 1965 327/365 hp. Currently has a single set of points and condenser on a stock Delco Remy distributor.
I have a brand new looking ballast resistor mounted to the drivers side of engine fire wall. The ballast connections are as follows .... a black wire comes from the fire wall through a rubber grommet and is attached at the lower screw on the resistor. I'm lead to believe this is coming from the ignition switch and hopefully connected to the correct terminal on the rear of the ignition switch. The top connection is a black wire with a faded stripe possibly pink which runs to the + side of the coil. Another wire black with a pink stripe runs from the same + side of the coil through the taped harness and is cut clean off near the starter solenoid. A continuity test showed no breaks in both wires and continuity ran from cut to ballast.
So to avoid a set of burnt points that one poster said would occur.... Do I return to a Delco coil and connect the cut end to the R terminal on the starter solenoid or am I fine to leave well enough alone. It cranks as it should because of the purple starter wire is correctly attached to the "S" solenoid inboard side and as soon as you release the key to the run position the engine runs on it's own. So it is not lighting off in the start position just cranking the engine over.
Now since it works..... I'm at this cross road, do I leave it with out incurring any electrical system damages or do I reattach the cut wire?
I will check this week and determine at which switch position I have full 12 volts and take a picture of my resistor as 65GGvert requested in order to forward.
Thank you everyone so far for your knowledgeable responses. I am trying to protect this thread from being shut due to it becoming an intelligence attacking thread.
Marshal

 

Ron,
I saw your most recent posting as I was typing. That is correct it cranks only in start position but does not light off the engine till the key is released to run.
So now that we know what it is doing, do I reattach the cut end for fear of burning up points or is it ok although not how the general intended?
I'm sorry this has become a drawn out thread but I really want to avoid an electrical fire.
Marshal

 

If it cranks in start and doesn't run until you release the key, yes you need to replace that black and pink wire connection to the r terminal on the starter. It should begin to run before you release the key. That was the critical piece of information you needed. Even though it starts now you're not getting the full 12 volts to the coil during the crank position. The car will run without it but if you ever have to crank it more than a few seconds it's going to cause you a problem. I would definitely replace the coil with a standard Delco Remy that does use a ballast resistor. I've never seen or used one that says it doesn't need it, and I wouldn't start now.

 

By the way, you don't have to worry about burning the points. That situation would be the exact opposite of what you have now. Burning the points would be by bypassing the ballast resistor, that's not what you have. The correct coil and connecting the r terminal should fix you up just like new.
Try not to take it too personal when somebody responds about your knowledge. Most of the time they haven't read your subsequent posts after your initial one to see what has already been discussed, and it pisses them off if you point that out.

 

Ron & 65GGVert,
Thanks for your responses. I will find the correct coil and restore the wiring as it was intended.
This thread hopefully helps someone else down the road as it has me.
I'm in my 30th year as an LEO not much I haven't been called lol.
No offense ever taken.
We had a training acronym to avoid the above situations, RTFQ.... Read the F..... Question.
Maybe we can modify this acronym to read.... RTFT read the F..... Thread before responding?
Marshal

 

Is the wire that is cut black w/ pink stripe 14 or 18 gauge? I need a proper gauge for splicing.
Thanks
Marshal

 

Marshall,
I cannot tell you the wire size on a 65. Your black-pink wires are both solid pink on R66 and are both 18 ga. but may have changed from 65 to 66.
Maybe 65GGVert can answer your question. Glad you got it figured out.
Ron

 

My Doc Rebuild '65 diagram shows 18 ga from the coil + (2-wire connector) to the loop "R" lug on the solenoid. 18 ga from resistor to coil also. Black with a pink stripe. This is how my LL ignition harness is set up.



Dave Z

 

Very good Post and responses.

 

Dave,
thanks that’s exactly what I needed
I recently used your excellent paper on the anatomy of a door to restore my roadsters vent window
I was blessed to come across it.
You have helped countless car guys.
Marshal

 

Marshal, it is 18 gauge and the reason the engine won’t start until you release the key is that the ignition switch is not providing power to the ballast resistor when it is in the START position. That is what the R terminal from the starter provides. Good advice on the fix above.

 

Marshal,
OPTIONAL: Just a suggestion to check the voltage on the wiring before you declare resolution of the problem as there may have been another reason the wire was disconnected.

Remove both wires from the coil +. Check the voltage at the Black-Pink wire from the R terminal of the starter while cranking while holding the ignition switch in the START position, should have 12VDC +/-. You may get less with the starter operating due to voltage drop across it - say 9-10 VDC.
Check the wires at the resistor with the ignition switch in the ON position. Wire from the ignition switch on one end of the resistor should have 12VDC (near battery voltage) while the wire to (or at) the coil on the other end of the resistor should be 7 - 9 VDC (I think).
Hope the disconnected wire is still serviceable and connected at the ignition switch. Still wondering 'WHY' it was disconnected.

Ron

 

The disconnected wire doesn't go to the ignition switch. It runs between the r terminal and the positive on the coil. The one from the ballast resistor does, but not the one on the r terminal. Also the voltage on both ends of the ballast resistor will be 12 volts with the key in the run position unless the points happen to be closed. With the points open there's no current flow through the coil so no voltage drop across the resistor and both ends of the ballast resistor will read battery voltage. That wire may not have been disconnected, it may have just broken loose from the ring terminal on the R post. Either way if you connect it back to the R post and it is still connected to the positive on the coil you'll get the full 12 volts coming through the starter solenoid contact to provide voltage for starting.

 

Gentlemen,
Here is my possible theory...
The car at one time had a starter w/o the "R" terminal and the wingnut who worked on it just snipped it clean off to avoid a short.
I've been investigating stupidity for 30 years so seeing stupid things done to a fine automobile is not surprising either.
My friend purchased this car in 1984 for $12,000.. after just getting out of the Navy. He had only 4k saved and had to take a loan for the balance.
A Doctor owned it previously who we believe was the second owner.
My friend said he came across as someone who did not know his way around automobiles and had everything done for him.
Also it could have had a breaker less type ignition at one time? Again this would have been prior to 1984.
I think I am going to purchase a new length of 18 ga. Blk w/ pink stripe wire and run a new wire with new connectors from the "R" terminal to the + coil side.
I am going to run another new length of same color coded wire from the + coil side to the top of the ballast resistor. This way there is no intermittent current issues.
I used the wire looms extensively before in my last vette to protect the original wiring harness from the excessive engine heat coming from a big block.
I can run the new length of wire parallel to the starter harness and put the whole shabang in a loom.
Although I am a member of the NCRS, I am not trying to achieve judging status on this car.
Prior to 1984, the car received a set of 4 tube headers, Holley 600cfm dual feed double pumper. It currently had straight through exhaust coming off the headers into series 40 Flow masters. With an L76 motor it sounds bad *** and I wouldn't change a thing.
I do enjoy having the components working properly though.
I will check the voltage as advised.
Thank you again contributors to this thread for staying with me on this issue to see it through.
Marshal

 

Your plan is perfect, correct coil and new wire. Even though you think it starts easily now, this will help it fire before you even release the key. In a cold weather or low battery situation, that could be critical. Congratulations on sticking with it and providing clear details on what you were working on.