My Vette has been sittin in the garage for about 6 weeks. The battery is now DEAD. I mean totally dead deceased DOA KIA whatever you want to call it. This is the 2nd time! Last go round I charged the battery and checked the charging system by putting my digital volt meter on the two battery posts. It is gettin about 14+ volts with the motor running so something is drawing off my juice while the car sits.

I am not gonna venture any opinions / guesses / theories other than the obvious. Something is on when it should be off. From that point on I am LOST! I hate electrical problems and hope somebody has a silver bullet for this one.

I dearly do not want to rewire the car even though the system is almost totally original. Just not up for all that fun. I also do not want to start replacing stuff till I stumble on the right solution.

One option is just selling this damn car and the other is "selling" it to the insurance company. Damn I just wanna drive it. I am sick of drive fix drive fix drive fix. One of these days it is gonna be drive fix drive .....sell.

HELP!

Oman

 

You need to find the draw on the battery. Disconnect your negative post of the battery and put one voltmeter probe on the cable and the other on the post. Put the meter in "amp" mode to measure the current flowing through the system. Make sure all doors are closed, the key is off, and see what the milliamp reading is. If you see more than just a few milliamp draw, then you need to debug further.

Start pulling fuses one by one. After you pull a fuse, check the current draw to see if it drops. When it drops, you've found the circuit with the problem. If you pull all the fuses and there is still a current draw, pull the unfused coections off the fuse block as well. If there is still a current draw after this, disconnect the alternator and check again. It is possible for the alternator diode (?) to go bad and drain current when the car is off.

If you've done all this and there;s still a draw, disconnect the starter. If that don't fix it, your car is possessed!

In each case, if you determine which circuit is at fault, you'lll need to break out the ol' wiring diagram and start tracing wires to find the problem. This part really sucks. Good luck.

Shannon

 

Most of us with older cars have this kind of problem. I hate electrical problems more than anything too. It's not a fix, but the battery disconnect switch with the green **** will save your battery. Just have to pop the hood and turn the **** when you're not using the car.

 

Often overlooked is the clock. It's an electro-mechanical clock. As it winds down, a set of points touch, and the clock electrically rewinds. Then it "tick, tick, ticks mechanically till it winds down and electrically winds up again. The clock points often fuse/stick together, especially with a garage sitter, as the voltage/amperage drops. I'd check that first. Chuck

 

All the advice above should be followed. There are a few circuits that are not routed through the fuse box. Pull one end of all fuses. If you still have a draw, post again. If not, press fuses in until you find the bad circuit. Post that.
:confused:
Quick fix is to install a green **** battery disconnect. I use one for storage - so the alarm systems and the clock and stereo memory do not drain the battery. Got an electric choke? :bb

First things first: Dirty battery connections will drain the battery at startup, but not allow the alternator to charge the battery. Loose/dirty connection at the starter has the same effect. :nono:

 

Quote*
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Most of us with older cars have this kind of problem. I hate electrical problems more than anything too. It's not a fix, but the battery disconnect switch with the green **** will save your battery. Just have to pop the hood and turn the **** when you're not using the car.
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:iagree:



Click To Enlarge

 

Well that does not sound as bad I thought it might have. Not as good as I thought but not as bad either.

Ok here are a few thoughts that I did not want to to put into the mix to mislead anybody. My ignition key is kinda funny. I mean sometimes I think the key is stuck...can't really explain it but could the ignition switch be leaving something on .....like an accessory even though I think it is in the off position?

Also my interior lights, the courtesy lights not the dash lights, work sometimes and sometimes they don't. Any clues there???? Perhaps one of the hot wires to the lights is frayed and grounding...naw that would bloew a fues right?

My light switch dimmer...the one that turns the courrtesy lights on and off and dims the instrument lights is old tired and worn out. Sometimes I can turn the courtesy lights on sometimes I cannot. Ya gotta jiggle and wiggle the darn thing. Any clues there?

Last but not least....Ain't if full of surprises here. I have an MSD 6al. I wonder if I did something dumb wiring that up? I connected it to a wire that went to one side of the ballast resistor, removed the ballast resistor and of course the wire from the other side of the resistor went away with the old coil.

Well now I have something ELSE to do. Good news is mother in law arrives tomorrow and I can hide in the basement lookin to solve this problem. Also I can finish working on my other car. Might not get to see Ma at all. Hmmmmmmm. Every dark cloud has a silver lining.

Thanks for the suggestions given so far. Keep em coming. Gonna poke around a little this afternoon and repost.

 

Ok I am back did ya miss me????? New battery loaded in from my other classic car. Key off doors closed 225 or so milliamps give or take a few milliamps. But who is countin...?

Ok disconnected the alternator ...all three wires no change. Checked a wire I had added to one of the unused lugs on the box. No change.

Pulled the lowest fuse on the fuss box.....Courtesy lights......re checked reading .06 milliamps Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Now the wierd part. Reseated the fuse and rechecked the reading. .06 Milliamps STILL. Is this possible??????

How could reseating the fuse correct this problem? I am going to recheck all the numbers again but well I am stumped. Is the Clock on that circuit and could pulling the fuse have let the clock points open as Chuck indicated????

 

Oman,
Two things come to mind, The first is to disconnect your battery and if it still runs down then the battery has an internal short which will cause the battery to discharge. The other is to disconnect the Red wire from the back of the alternator and make sure that there is no current draw there. The diodes in the alternator can start leaking current by as they start to go bad. Theye can be viewed as one-way check valves for electricity that can leak just like plumbing check valves. The other post about clock is correct, the coils in these old clocks can draw pretty good current. A modern solid state clock can run for years on the power in a AA battery, but not these old electro-mechanical ones!
:seeya

 

None of this is rocket sience to correct.Purchase a wiring diagram for your car and follow it through the diagram eliminating all extra wires/jumpers that are not on the diagram and not original to the car,As for your msd box go back to the original wiring for that IT SHOULD NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE BALLAST that shoud be removed from the car for now.I can fix any electrical problem with a diagram and so can every one else.

Start with the basics how is the firewall conection.(almost every one I have pulled a part is corroded or has a greenish tint) How is the battery conections/wires,How is the alternators harness,how is the wires around the voltage regulator,Is the battery taking a charge, every conection you touch should be inspected and cleaned with a brass soft brush (NOT a metal wire brush) every conection you touch make sure is all the way into the plastic connector and not being pushed out the other side when you reconect it. You say your ignition switch is funney get a new one,I have fixed tons of cars with electrical problems just by taking the time to properly diagnois the problems and then eliminate them.
My 1966 was loaded with electrical bugs when I purchased it.battery always dead.I found extra feed wires extra ground jumpers I removed all of them from the car and cleaned up dirty conection and have not had a problem since.The only time my battery goes dead is when I have my reproducion battery in it and it is only because it is a bad battery.My corvette and my cadillac can sit all winter in unheated garages and will start any time I try.The corvettes clock is always running.

You really just have to invest some time in this.

 

[QUOTE]
Pulled the lowest fuse on the fuss box.....Courtesy lights......re checked
How could reseating the fuse correct this problem? I am going to recheck all the numbers again but well I am stumped.Is the Clock on that circuit and could pulling the fuse have let the clock points open as Chuck indicated????[/ unplug the clock from the back of the clock eliminate it from the circut is it still drawing then its not the clock

Have you checked or cleaned your firewall conection?? resetting the fuse will have an effect on this if you have a dirty/loose conection and you are pushing the fuse back in.pull the fuse block how dose it look behind it?

 

I have a '69 Camaro that earlier this summer was giving me fits exactly as you described. It indeed was the three year old rebuilt alternator as talked about above. Maybe thats what I get for going to Autozone!

 

The clock indeed is on that circuit so if Chuck Gongloff is right about what clocks can do it could indeed have been the clock. I should have checked what circuit the clock was on before I responded but I was jazzed just at finding the bad circuit. I had awful visions of cutting open harnesses and such. I guess everybody has an electrical story and I have had a few myself. Not fun..... never have been never will be.

No I have never fooled with the connectors at the firewall. I was all fired up to do that but then I wrecked my thumb workin on the other car. One thing led to another and I never got to check those connections. One of those things I gotta do soon. I suspect it is not too pretty back there. Everything on the car is (was) so original

I am leaning toward the fuse box as the culprit, I think you might be right. Perhaps pushing on it as I was removing and reloading the fuse reseated some connectors??? Now since I have no improper drain on the circuit I am kinda screwed as to further research. I was gonna unhook the clock and leave the fuse in then check for the drain but that plan is not gonna help me now. If it was the clock somehow removing and resetting the fuse allowed the points in the clock to reset or it was never the clock and it somehow was related to the fuse box. I am afraid that is as far as I can go until and if the drain returns.

Best course now is just to clean the conncetions and install one of those disconnect units on the battery. Possibly run the amp drain test now and then also.

From your first response:

"As for your msd box go back to the original wiring for that IT SHOULD NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE BALLAST that shoud be removed from the car for now."

From my earlier post:

"Last but not least....Ain't I full of surprises here. I have an MSD 6al. I wonder if I did something dumb wiring that up? I connected it to a wire that went to one side of the ballast resistor, removed the ballast resistor.........."

The 6Al IS NOT connected to the ballast the ballast is in my tool box.


[Modified by TheOman, 3:48 PM 12/21/2002]


[Modified by TheOman, 3:52 PM 12/21/2002]

 

THIS IS A DISCLAMMER for when kid again reads this post
,Always find the sourse of the problem and then fix it correctly,the below refrenced componet does not correct your problem it will only allow you to start your car,the drain/short/voltage leakage can and will still be in the car and could leave you stranded if the below refrenced componets does fail


My partner has this little box on the side of his vaction truck (it sits at his vacation home all year only used when he is at the house) that is a battery protector when he batterys voltage falls below a certain level it disconects the feed to the truck disconects the computer,radio memory,what ever pulls alittle current.The idea is that no matter what he will still have enought juice in the battery to start him up.He says when he goes there if it doesnot start he opens the hood and hits a reset button and 9 out of 10 times it always starts.I just looked at auto zone and did not find it But he is a jc whitney addic and probabley got it from there do a search of j.c whitney and you might find it


I found the componet my partner has on his truck at jc whitney its called the battery brain here is a link to it
http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoit...=52300&BQ=jcw2


[Modified by Ih2lose, 4:15 PM 12/21/2002]

 

Glad to hear that your problem has gone away. But, here's a rule: problems that go away by themselves, come back by themselves. At the very least, you gotta pop and reseat the main connector - a little cleanup of the connectors if they're green - because you did say that you had lots of little gremlins.
Also on the ballast resistor: when I went HEI I just made a 10 gage jumper from the top to the bottom terminals and left it in place. Just looks cleaner under the hood with it there.

Daffy

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

...gotta love this forum :thumbs:


...since i'm still bustin' a gut laughin about Ih2lose's post, i can't remember WHY i posted a response

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

The fact that the problem went away with no overt correction required leaves me uneasy also. Fact is though I really have nothin to look at unless the leak returns. As to the terminals sure they are green. I almost don't have to look to know that. If it is a part of the car that I never touched (and I never cleaned the fuse box) then I am SURE not one of the putz owners [caretakers...yeah right] ever even saw the fuse box. Based on some of what had been done on the "restoration" of this car before I got it. Oh enough of that.

As to the ballast and the bypass you made. I am from the less is more school. If I don't need it I get rid of it. These cars are so small and everything is so compactly packaged anything that is not in use is by definition in the way and unnecessary to my way of thinking.

I am going to recheck the leak again today. Like I said I HATE workin on electrical stuff. Intermittent problems are so annoying. If it is mechanical and it is broken / worn out then it is always is broken / worn out. Find the broken / worn out part replace it and move on. Nope not that easy with things like shorts and electrical "Leaks" and such. Argh!

If Chuck follows up on this thread any comments on the clock would be appreciated. Also I am now planning to remove the headlight switch and look at that set of connectors when I clean the bulkhead connections. Can't wait to see how much old brittle plastic I can crack when I try those things.




[Modified by TheOman, 9:57 AM 12/22/2002]

 

Hi Oman. Regarding the clock...you can easily take it out by removing the passengers side radio access panel. Wiggle your mitt up there. You'll feel two prongs from the back of the clock. Over those two prongs are two "slide" connectors. Slide them off. The clock will come out to the front. I haven't opened one for awhile, but you can pry the back of the case off. Look inside....you'll see the points. See if they're fused together or if they're burnt. Take some crocus cloth and clean them up. See if you can get it working again. The mechanical mechanisms of these clocks are pretty tough. It's the rewind portion that goes bad.

Here's a question for you EE's out there. True or False? As voltage decreases, (as in your battery going down), Amperage increases??. I've been told that this is why the points fuse/burn. :confused: Chuck

 

...Oman -> you may want to hose down the fuse box and any electrical contacts you can reach with something called "electrical contact cleaner"...you can find it at electronic supply places (i think radioshaft sells something similar under the name "color tv tuner cleaner"...this stuff is amazing, it even completely removed the copper oxide that had gummed up my turn signal bulb socket (saving a bunch o' bucks :yesnod: )...

...for the sake of argument, if it is the clock, i guess i'm nowhere near as handy as some others, i can NEVER fix an old tick-tock mechanism no matter how hard i try so i replaced both mechanisms in my cars with a quartz movement...IF the problem is the clock, that may help

 

Take some crocus cloth

Hey chuck where did you get that term from,That was my grandfathers fix all.he could almost start anything with a roll of crocus cloth, a screw driver,and a can of eather and a 1/2 wrench (for adjusting the timing)
It realy brought a nice feeling to hear that term again.Most people look at me like I have 3 heads when I say it