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I found out about this book through the forum. Bought it on EBay for $5. I think it is a great read for someone like me who is contemplating his firs restoration and I wish I had read it earlier. It would have saved me some time. As amateurs, we make our own adventure with these projects and have to make thouands of decisions. I respect the work Don put into his car, and share the pain of some of his mistakes. But I question some of his decisions.
He had trouble getting the tach to work so he reversed the lens over it. So he has one concave and one convex. I could easier live with a big paint run than look at that mismatch every time I got behind the wheel. He paid extra for date coded windshield and top, but did many other things that were not original. Why bother?
While he did much work himself, he paid to have the carpets installed. Am I missing something here? That seems like a more straightforward job than an engine installation on newly painted car.
I think that really is the downfall of the book. he relied on to many people to tell the truth about an old used car. and unfortunately, his close friend lied to him to self-promote his car and sparked a decade old debate
I'm sure you are referring to the incident in which Noland was "hood"-winked, as it were, by a fellow who had a local reputation for frequently playing things fast and loose.
In my opinion, that was an isolated incident.
Noland's research was based heavily on GM documentation. True, he also conducted owner surveys. That's simply a sign of a thorough researcher. In my inspection of those surveys, owners did their best to report what they sincerely believed to be true and honestly noted those issues about which they were unsure. Because of that candor, I don't believe the owner surveys can be summarily dismissed as irrelevant.
Time may have shown that some of Noland's research fell short of the mark. That's just the way of things as newer and better information becomes known. But that's not a reason to impugn the man for working tirelessly to do what no one else even attempted back in the day. His heart was always in the right place. He did us all a favor for which there is no re-payment possible.
Not sure about a $5 book to restore a high valued Vette. Anyway, this is the bible: (Noland Adams is probably the most noted individual in the field of researching and restoring Vettes penning many books on the subject. The USPS even created a postage stamp honoring him.)
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Jan 6, 2023 at 02:15 PM.
Four books every one needs if they care about correctness is the NCRS judging manual for the year of there car, the Adams book, The Mf Dobbins book and a all around book is the Corvette Black Book after that it’s optional
I am not familiar with this book.
That being said Different people have different skill sets.
if you are considering restoring a car I would give that a second though. Unless it is a special high value car more often than not you are better off buying a done car. Most people that restore cars today end upside down and lose money when they sell them to the benefit to the new buyer.
I have been in the old car hobby for 50 years now and the days of restoring a car and not being upside down are gone.
if you don’t value your time, enjoy the process as in getting a sense of personal satisfaction from it or already have the tools, space and talent to do ALL of it yourself then have at it.
Another thing to consider is the time you are NOT having fun DRIVING the car verses toiling over it should be considered. It take at least a year or more for the average restoration.
Think long and hard about all of this before you make your final decision.
EDIT:
I just noted from your profile you are retired. Don’t know how old you are or how long you think you will live but these are certainly thing I would want to consider.
Darrel I beg to differ every car my dad and I restored we could sell and make a profit The key is not to write a check for everything and do everything you can. And the three cars NCRS top flight cars and my chevelle is a award winner too at a all chevelle show that strives for originality
Darrel I beg to differ every car my dad and I restored we could sell and make a profit The key is not to write a check for everything and do everything you can. And the three cars NCRS top flight cars and my chevelle is a award winner too at a all chevelle show that strives for originality
How much money do you make at your profession? What hourly rate did you assign to these restorations? I am betting you don’t consider this. If you are an hourly employee how much overtime did you miss out on earning if you had worked that rather than spending the same time on the cars? Most people never consider these things.
I get it, it is a hobby and most don’t REALLY want to know what they REALLY have invested in their cars financially. I do and honestly I can tell you that even though I currently have a nice original type car and one that was restored prior to buying it, with the money I have spent on each I am now only about even if I were to sell either of them today.
I am 72 and have been playing with cars all my life, inc rebuilding a wrecked 66 when i was in high school. But family needs and other priorities have kept me from my dream 67 convertible, or any fun car. I have enjoyed almost every day of the two years I have invested so far. I love the challenges of figuring things out, and getting things to where I am happy. I am coginzant of investment vs resale, and am trying to avoid that. But the pleasure I get from looking at something and saying "I did that" is worth every penny.
I was not suggesting this book as a how to, but as an initial step when considering such a project. There are so many decisions to be made, that most neophytes would never consider. These include the one raised above, do you want to work on it or drive it. In my case, I am very active in outdoor sports, but need something else to keep me stimulated and challenged. For that reason, I am trying to almost everything myself. I know a shop might do a better job, but that is not the point. I couldn't care less about car shows, judging or top dollar resale. I want to enjoy driving what I built
But I was hoping to hear from others who have read the book to weigh in on his decisions
Last edited by OldVetteguy84; Jan 6, 2023 at 03:52 PM.
[QUOTE=OldVetteguy84;1606115360]I am 72 and have been playing with cars all my life, inc rebuilding a wrecked 66 when i was in high school. But family needs and other priorities have kept me from my dream 67 convertible, or any fun car. I have enjoyed almost every day of the two years I have invested so far. I love the challenges of figuring things out, and getting things to where I am happy. I am coginzant of investment vs resale, and am trying to avoid that. But the pleasure I get from looking at something and saying "I did that" is worth every penny.
I was not suggesting this book as a how to, but as an initial step when considering such a project. There are so many decisions to be made, that most neophytes would never consider. These include the one raised above, do you want to work on it or drive it. In my case, I am very active in outdoor sports, but need something else to keep me stimulated and challenged. For that reason, I am trying to almost everything myself. I know a shop might do a better job, but that is not the point. I couldn't care less about car shows, judging or top dollar resale. I want to enjoy driving what I built
But I was hoping to hear from others who have read the book to weigh in on his decisions[/QUOTE]
Why do you care? From your above statement you are doing what you want the way you want to do it. For that I applaud you. If you are happy that is all that matters. When I was buying and selling these old cars for extra money it mattered. I am your same age and I am going to die with the three classics I have so what I have in them really doesn’t matter to me since I will not sell them. I suspect the same is true for you so enjoy working on it and driving it when your done.
Sherman's book is a decent book, with some good information in it, but it's 20 years old and believe it or not, a lot has been learned about these cars in that time frame. Nolan's Restoration Guide Vol. 2 is also a great book but somewhat dated book, first being published some 40 years ago. I have both of them in my "library", along with probably another 40-50 books.
Personally I think anyone restoring a Corvette should have the GM Shop Manual for their year car, I'm talking about the "real" manual originally printed by Helm, Inc for GM, not one of the generic "Haynes" manuals. The "Assembly Instruction Manual" for your year (often referred to as the AIM on the Forum), is also a must. The current 67 "NCRS Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide" is where you will find the most up to date information about finishes, numbers, etc for your car. Finally, the "NCRS Pocket Specifications Guide 1953-1967" has all the same info that's found in the Corvette "Black Book", and a lot more for only a couple dollars more.
Not sure about a $5 book to restore a high valued Vette. Anyway, this is the bible: (Noland Adams is probably the most noted individual in the field of researching and restoring Vettes penning many books on the subject. The USPS even created a postage stamp honoring him.)
I love books like this; the history and whys and hows and whens interest me. I have a copy of that book and I've read it. But it must, by it's very nature, have inaccuracies. Much data was gained through owner surveys. New data can overshadow the old. Some people feel the book is not good or it's not needed and I disagree; while expensive I feel it lays a solid foundation for other data at the worst. When a person is budgeting 50-80K and more on a car purchase, what's a few hundred on a book that can help spend money more wisely?
That said, many people prefer a clinical "here's my checkbook, just like a brand new car" attitude with vintage cars, and that's their prerogative no matter what I think about that. In some cases, it's a necessity: I'm not 17 any more myself.
Bu wiser men than me have said : "before you buy cars, buy books" and while you cannot tell it by looking at my posts, I was the owner, driver, head mechanic, chief electrician, bodyman, junkyard ghoul. parts chaser, etc etc for the same classic car for 31 years, and I am still learning things bout that car today, three years after I sold it. And I must have provided a few grand worth of ref material, original manuals, and books to the new owner, when I sold it. Anyone who says you can't keep learning about a vintage car would need to explain that to me slowly using small words.
I found out about this book through the forum. Bought it on EBay for $5. I think it is a great read for someone like me who is contemplating his firs restoration and I wish I had read it earlier. It would have saved me some time. As amateurs, we make our own adventure with these projects and have to make thouands of decisions. I respect the work Don put into his car, and share the pain of some of his mistakes. But I question some of his decisions.
He had trouble getting the tach to work so he reversed the lens over it. So he has one concave and one convex. I could easier live with a big paint run than look at that mismatch every time I got behind the wheel. He paid extra for date coded windshield and top, but did many other things that were not original. Why bother?
While he did much work himself, he paid to have the carpets installed. Am I missing something here? That seems like a more straightforward job than an engine installation on newly painted car.
I am curious to know what you guys think
As far as this book goes I think you nailed it on the head already, and for five bucks you can now benefit from his decisions good or bad. Best return on investment I've seen for a while
I love books like this; the history and whys and hows and whens interest me. I have a copy of that book and I've read it. But it must, by it's very nature, have inaccuracies. Much data was gained through owner surveys. New data can overshadow the old. Some people feel the book is not good or it's not needed and I disagree; while expensive I feel it lays a solid foundation for other data at the worst. When a person is budgeting 50-80K and more on a car purchase, what's a few hundred on a book that can help spend money more wisely?
That said, many people prefer a clinical "here's my checkbook, just like a brand new car" attitude with vintage cars, and that's their prerogative no matter what I think about that. In some cases, it's a necessity: I'm not 17 any more myself.
Bu wiser men than me have said : "before you buy cars, buy books" and while you cannot tell it by looking at my posts, I was the owner, driver, head mechanic, chief electrician, bodyman, junkyard ghoul. parts chaser, etc etc for the same classic car for 31 years, and I am still learning things bout that car today, three years after I sold it. And I must have provided a few grand worth of ref material, original manuals, and books to the new owner, when I sold it. Anyone who says you can't keep learning about a vintage car would need to explain that to me slowly using small words.
I think that really is the downfall of the book. he relied on to many people to tell the truth about an old used car. and unfortunately, his close friend lied to him to self-promote his car and sparked a decade old debate
I think that really is the downfall of the book. he relied on to many people to tell the truth about an old used car. and unfortunately, his close friend lied to him to self-promote his car and sparked a decade old debate
That's an excellent point. When I read that it was done on user surveys, from my experience, I knew what that means. I might not be critical enough because I'm losing perceptive on what other people who don't make that connection might think or assume about such reference material.
I find I can learn SOMETHING from almost any book. As said, there are a lot of different approaches, there are different goals and different thought processes when tackling stuff like this. The better informed you are, the better you will be at decision making. You will wind up doing what Book A suggests on one part of the project, but going with Book B or C on others. For $5, you can't possibly have gone wrong.
I think that really is the downfall of the book. he relied on to many people to tell the truth about an old used car. and unfortunately, his close friend lied to him to self-promote his car and sparked a decade old debate
I'm sure you are referring to the incident in which Noland was "hood"-winked, as it were, by a fellow who had a local reputation for frequently playing things fast and loose.
In my opinion, that was an isolated incident.
Noland's research was based heavily on GM documentation. True, he also conducted owner surveys. That's simply a sign of a thorough researcher. In my inspection of those surveys, owners did their best to report what they sincerely believed to be true and honestly noted those issues about which they were unsure. Because of that candor, I don't believe the owner surveys can be summarily dismissed as irrelevant.
Time may have shown that some of Noland's research fell short of the mark. That's just the way of things as newer and better information becomes known. But that's not a reason to impugn the man for working tirelessly to do what no one else even attempted back in the day. His heart was always in the right place. He did us all a favor for which there is no re-payment possible.
I'm sure you are referring to the incident in which Noland was "hood"-winked, as it were, by a fellow who had a local reputation for frequently playing things fast and loose.
In my opinion, that was an isolated incident.
Noland's research was based heavily on GM documentation. True, he also conducted owner surveys. That's simply a sign of a thorough researcher. In my inspection of those surveys, owners did their best to report what they sincerely believed to be true and honestly noted those issues about which they were unsure. Because of that candor, I don't believe the owner surveys can be summarily dismissed as irrelevant.
Time may have shown that some of Noland's research fell short of the mark. That's just the way of things as newer and better information becomes known. But that's not a reason to impugn the man for working tirelessly to do what no one else even attempted back in the day. His heart was always in the right place. He did us all a favor for which there is no re-payment possible.
Very well stated. The book may not be perfect but I have yet to find anything in this world that is..
Oops, with the exception of my wife.
Last edited by Jud Chapin; Jan 7, 2023 at 03:55 PM.
Thoughts on this book
let me guess who just walked in the room as you were typing!