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I have a Wilton SS V Reg that I bought a long time ago when I was collecting resto parts. I had never been used until now as my resto is finished; initially I thought the Generator was not working (auto electrician diagnosed) but it has now been bench tested and is working fine. I thought I remember reading that the V Reg had to have something done to it when first installed to get it to work (excited or something .... I don't know???); I may be completely wrong but is someone can confirm either way would be great.
Due to pick up the generator this Friday and will reinstall and will double check to see exactly what the issue is .... if there still is an issue. Might have just been a weird gremlin that has now gone away.
I've looked at the old posts on this and was going to reply to one of those but restarting old threads seems to be frowned on, so started a new one....
You may need to polarize the generator if it has been rebuilt or out o the car for a long time. I probably wouldn't try it with the SS regulator connected.
Here is a thread on doing it and even mentions the Wilton Regulator
I know that sometimes voltage regulators need to be excited or flashed with a voltage jolt to start working but I don’t really understand the process. I had to do it on my ERA Cobra with old Ford electronics when I got it running. I wired in some sort of gizmo - capacitor or something and it has worked ever since. I’m sure some of the more electrically schooled guys on here can explain it.
But I do know it’s not always necessary as I’ve replaced many voltage regulators on my Corvette and old Mopars and never had to do anything other than hook them up and turn the key. It may also just be something that affects old point type regulators too a not solid state circuit ones. - not sure about that.
I have 2 of these solid state voltage regulators from Wilton, One is in my '60 and the other is a spare i bought from Frankie when he sold all of his '61 parts. There is only one other guy on this forum that I know has a Wilton regulator in a C1 and that is Tom Parsons (DZAUTO). He may chime in later.
Below is a picture of the actual instructions from Wilton noting the precautions to be taking when installing one of his SS regulators in a generator car. Note the first line:
These tests assure that the generator is in good shape and will not damage the regulator. Until these tests are passed do not bring the regulator closer than 10 feet to the car.
It is my explicit understanding that you DO NOT polarize your generator with this SS regulator installed under any circumstances. I had my generator rebuilt, then polarized the generator through an older conventional voltage regulator, then finally I installed the new SS regulator. I have not touched it nor had a single problem since I installed it in 2011.
My spare VR from Wilton has a small sticker on the underside of the base that says 12V.....Neg ground.....Hot field. You will notice that Bob (Wilton owner) himself crossed out the "Grounded Field" and circled the "Hot Field". As stated earlier, I simply polarized my generator first before installing the SS regulator and did not do the hot field test procedure.
Since your generator is still at the shop, I would see if they will polarize the generator for you. If they can, you're good to go. If not, I would get a conventional VR, polarize the generator, then install the SS regulator. That is the sure and simple way to do it in my opinion. I think the SS regulator is waaayyyyy too valuable to experiment with.
I know that sometimes voltage regulators need to be excited or flashed with a voltage jolt to start working but I don’t really understand the process. I had to do it on my ERA Cobra with old Ford electronics when I got it running. I wired in some sort of gizmo - capacitor or something and it has worked ever since. I’m sure some of the more electrically schooled guys on here can explain it.
But I do know it’s not always necessary as I’ve replaced many voltage regulators on my Corvette and old Mopars and never had to do anything other than hook them up and turn the key. It may also just be something that affects old point type regulators too a not solid state circuit ones. - not sure about that.
Dan & All-
We polarize a generator, never a regulator. A generator needs some residual magnetism in its steel cores in order to begin generating current and in the proper direction. Its difficult for the typical shunt wound generator to lose its residual magnetism and why this procedure is not required often. However if the armature and/or pole shoes are replaced, or the generator has been on a shelf for years, it may require polarization which is nothing more than flashing the battery to the alternator for a second, enough for a spark, which is enough to orient the generator output to be positive or negative as the generator is only too happy to be either.
The confusion over "polarizing a regulator" stems from where you are often instructed to perform the polarizing flash. Some instruct to do so at the regulator terminals. But it is the generator that is being polarized, not the regulator. The risk in this is that certain regulators are of the double contact variety. Delco used these on air conditioned cars so it may not apply to a C1. It does apply to many old GM cars and why I bother to explain this. You NEVER want to flash a double contact regulator as it will immediately weld the contacts together and ruin it. Most have a red tag warning you to disconnect the F terminal from the regulator and perform the flash at the generator.
Lastly, most GM generators are "A" circuit, meaning the regulator controls the field via providing a ground while Ford & Mopar are mostly "B" circuit in which the regulator controls the field via providing battery.
We have discussed here in the past that a good solid state regulator for shunt wound automotive generators does not exist beyond the few created by cottage industries. Small aircraft use a version, and the Bosch 30019 is a solid state regulator for use with generators in VW's which kept its generator until 1973.
Maybe Mr. Lockwood can comment on the difficulty in designing a solid state regulator for a generator.
I am quite sure that Mr. Jeffers wrote that with a generous amount of tongue-in-cheek to greatly emphasize that the generator should be in proper working order before installing his ss regulator. Remember that Bob was 74 years old when he started this business, so my bet is he didn't want novices coming back on him that his regulator didn't work when they did not follow his instructions and they fried a brand new regulator. I'll admit I took that statement relatively seriously when installing my ss regulator as he is an electrical engineer and I am not. It worked for me and that's all I care about.
Maybe Mr. Lockwood can comment on the difficulty in designing a solid state regulator for a generator.
Dan
I've thought about it. The electrical design isn't particularly difficult. I'd probably implement a regulator using a cheap microcontroller such as an Arduino. Done that way it would be trivial to simulate the vibrating relay contacts of electro-mechanical regulators that cause the Ammeter needle to flutter. Might help pass judging. Even if judging isn't important, the ability to use software to fine tune the Voltage vs. temperature charging curve would be of significant value.
The greater challenges would be qualifying the design to work over the extremes of an automotive environment and ensuring reliable sources of high quality components. Large companies take great pains to accomplish both of these objectives. They have the significant resources required to do so. Not so with small Mom/Pop outfits operating out of the garage.
Therein lies the problem.
A large company would life-test a large sample of regulators in environmental ovens to ensure they work under all conditions all the time. Mom and Pop could likely do no better than installing a prototype on their personal vehicle and trying it out.
A large company would have contracts with suppliers which guarantee the specifications of the components which make up the regulator. Mom and Pop have to buy whatever stock the suppliers have; they have no leverage.
Simply stated, the electrical design isn't the issue. Ensuring that the design is reliable and easy to manufacture is the challenge and it's a formidable one.
How did Mr. Wilton overcome these obstacles? I don't know. I've never seen one of his regulators. I guarantee, though, that the obstacles are real and he had to deal with them somehow.
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Originally Posted by jim lockwood
I've thought about it. The electrical design isn't particularly difficult. I'd probably implement a regulator using a cheap microcontroller such as an Arduino. Done that way it would be trivial to simulate the vibrating relay contacts of electro-mechanical regulators that cause the Ammeter needle to flutter. Might help pass judging. Even if judging isn't important, the ability to use software to fine tune the Voltage vs. temperature charging curve would be of significant value.
The greater challenges would be qualifying the design to work over the extremes of an automotive environment and ensuring reliable sources of high quality components. Large companies take great pains to accomplish both of these objectives. They have the significant resources required to do so. Not so with small Mom/Pop outfits operating out of the garage.
Therein lies the problem.
A large company would life-test a large sample of regulators in environmental ovens to ensure they work under all conditions all the time. Mom and Pop could likely do no better than installing a prototype on their personal vehicle and trying it out.
A large company would have contracts with suppliers which guarantee the specifications of the components which make up the regulator. Mom and Pop have to buy whatever stock the suppliers have; they have no leverage.
Simply stated, the electrical design isn't the issue. Ensuring that the design is reliable and easy to manufacture is the challenge and it's a formidable one.
How did Mr. Wilton overcome these obstacles? I don't know. I've never seen one of his regulators. I guarantee, though, that the obstacles are real and he had to deal with them somehow.
Excellent comments.
For amusement a few years back I sat down and designed a solid state regulator for generator usage. The basic design is pretty easy, but the extra circuitry to vary the charge voltage/current over temperature for battery protection, and the short circuit/reverse polarity protections add more content and complexity. IIRC there were also customizing issues due to different generator output capabilities and if the generator is controlled by grounding or energizing the Field, again IIRC.
Building (and testing!) these parts is certainly doable if one has the interest and time(!), but all I have lately is the interest. (Track time and modifications to the '69 eat up most of my free time.)
I'm running a solid state regulator from Clover Systems I bought in 2017. They were here in SoCal (Laguna Niguel).
It was a small outfit... Also a Brit running it! His focus was on older Brit cars (some 6 volt, and some POSITIVE GROUND!).
It's a very nice unit with a lot of the features you describe (no Software interface, though!).
My only regret is that I didn't buy another as a spare.
Even though they discontinued it, the webpage is still there and you can download the manual.
Dan & All-
We polarize a generator, never a regulator. A generator needs some residual magnetism in its steel cores in order to begin generating current and in the proper direction. Its difficult for the typical shunt wound generator to lose its residual magnetism and why this procedure is not required often. However if the armature and/or pole shoes are replaced, or the generator has been on a shelf for years, it may require polarization which is nothing more than flashing the battery to the alternator for a second, enough for a spark, which is enough to orient the generator output to be positive or negative as the generator is only too happy to be
The confusion over "polarizing a regulator" stems from where you are often instructed to perform the polarizing flash. Some instruct to do so at the regulator terminals. But it is the generator that is being polarized, not the regulator. The risk in this is that certain regulators are of the double contact variety. Delco used these on air conditioned cars so it may not apply to a C1. It does apply to many old GM cars and why I bother to explain this. You NEVER want to flash a double contact regulator as it will immediately weld the contacts together and ruin it. Most have a red tag warning you to disconnect the F terminal from the regulator and perform the flash at the generator.
Lastly, most GM generators are "A" circuit, meaning the regulator controls the field via providing a ground while Ford & Mopar are mostly "B" circuit in which the regulator controls the field via providing battery.
We have discussed here in the past that a good solid state regulator for shunt wound automotive generators does not exist beyond the few created by cottage industries. Small aircraft use a version, and the Bosch 30019 is a solid state regulator for use with generators in VW's which kept its generator until 1973.
Maybe Mr. Lockwood can comment on the difficulty in designing a solid state regulator for a generator.
Dan
Dan, yeah, I think polarization is a different subject than what I was describing I had to do with my Cobra. It has an alternator and the term the ERA electrical designer used to describe what I needed to do was excite the regulator to start it functioning. I didn’t know if a similar process might apply to a generator system and I didn’t realize he was dealing with generator polarization issue so I threw it out there. I probably didn’t read the original post close enough. Sorry if it led astray.
Dan, yeah, I think polarization is a different subject than what I was describing I had to do with my Cobra. It has an alternator and the term the ERA electrical designer used to describe what I needed to do was excite the regulator to start it functioning. I didn’t know if a similar process might apply to a generator system and I didn’t realize he was dealing with generator polarization issue so I threw it out there. I probably didn’t read the original post close enough. Sorry if it led astray.
Excitation is related but not the same. The alternator is excited by the battery, that is to say, the alternator needs some current flowing in the rotor coils in order to excite, or cause current to flow in the stator. There is usually enough juice in a dead battery to accomplish this. A dead flat battery may be insufficient to excite an alternator and why some push start attempts don't alway work.
Jim, I appreciate your response. I guess we'll just have to live with what is available to us.
Wilton Solid State Voltage Regulator
