Several days ago I was driving and was halfway home from a 20 mile drive when I turned onto a highway on ramp at about 20 mph, started to accelerate and the engine just shut down. I pulled to the side and tried restarting it 2-3 times without success. I opened the hood, removed the air cleaner and moved the throttle linkage to see if fuel was squirting into the carb, which it was. Looked at plug wires and everything looked good. I was getting ready to call a flatbed, but tried starting it again and it fired right up. Put the air cleaner back on, closed the hood and took off, making the last 10 miles without any issues. I had a few minutes today so I started looking and couldn’t see any obvious problems and will do some more troubleshooting later this week, but am looking for recommendations on what else to look for.
I’ve owned the car 26 years and it has a Pertronix unit, which has been in it for 25 years, the coil is a Delco and about 8-10 years old. Carburetor is a Quickfuel, which has been on 8-9 years. Spark plugs and wires are probably 12 years old. Lars did a power tune 5-6 years ago and it has run great since then.

 

I would look at the condition of the wiring in the bulkhead connector, particularly the main red wire.
You may have lost power to everything intermittently and just didn’t notice everything was dead.
This is “C2 red wire syndrome” and possibly caused your engine to die (no power to coil)
Hard to diagnose until it happens, but everything is dead except the horn.
This is just one of many possible causes, but common enough to look at first.

 

That was definitely on my list of things to check. Thanks🍻

 

Did it sputter or just immediately die? Did it restart with no or little accelerator or did you have to hold it open or pump it?
I had the red wire problem, but had to wiggle the bulkhead connector to get it to restart. it had come loose. You might try wiggling it around to see it it kills the engine while running.
A bad coil may shut it down and then cool off and let it restart. When you pop the hood it will allow things to cool off a bit, but generally takes a half hour or so.
Do you have the ignition shielding over the coil?

 

It just quick running, no sputtering or bucking. When it did restart (less than 10 minutes from shutdown), I just turned the key with just a blip on the accelerator. Didn’t sit long enough (10 minutes) for anything to cool off and yes, the shielding was in place.

 

Was anything still alive electrically in the cabin while it wouldn't run? Would it crank while it wouldn't re-start, or was the starter also silent?

Live well,

SJW

 

The starter would turn as I tried restarting it a couple times right after it died. I don’t have my radio on and I didn’t think to check any other electrical components.

 

With what you know, I think you can narrow down the possibilities to a few things.

You had fuel to the carb, and it did start and run shortly thereafter. So fuel supply should be okay, and compression is obviously fine.

The remaining possibility is an electrical failure. Red wire syndrome is ruled out since it would crank. The hot feed to ignition doesn't pass through the firewall connector. The solenoid feed passes through the firewall connector, and it was also making contact. The internal contacts in the ignition switch for battery + in and solenoid out were making contact while cranking, so the switch should be okay. Ballast resistor, if present, is ruled out by the fact that the engine wouldn't start while cranking.

Best guesses I can come up with given the symptoms are either:

1. Coil failing.
2. Pertronix module failing.
3. Intermittent open circuit in the wiring from the - side of the coil to ground within the distributor. Ground wire from breaker plate to distributor body, wire from coil to Pertronix module.

Live well,

SJW

 

I would make this the first thing on the list to check....

 

I wouldn't.

Reported behavior was that current via the red wire was passing through to the ignition switch, and from there on to the solenoid while cranking.

Live well,

SJW

 

I’m definitely leaning toward an electrical problem. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Pertronix units (mine is 25 years old) just failed and don’t have intermittent problems. I’ve had a coil fail before and it definitely was intermittent.I’ll be checking all the wiring at the distributor, coil, ballast resistor and Pertronix.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

I fall back on my standard test. Go buy yourself something like a Lisle inline spark tester that you can quickly insert when the problems appear. This instantly settles the 'if' you have spark when it's not cranking. Once that is established then you can jump to the why.

 

Just ordered one.

 

It's good to remember that the wires within the distributor are in motion as engine vacuum varies (presuming, of course, that the distributor has vacuum advance). Those wires are fine-stranded so that they will tolerate a lot of flexion, but they can eventually fray and separate within their insulation -- typically, intermittently.

Having said that, my bet is on either the coil or the Pertronix module. Be sure to examine the module to confirm that it's not coming loose at its mounting, or showing other visible issues.

Live well,

SJW

 

$10 its the Pertronix.

Dan

 

The point is, if your engine bay wiring and fusebox is all original, it's a common failure with an easy fix, so you definitely Should inspect it, because there's no reason not to.
Most, need to be unplugged and cleaned up at the very least, but running a new wire means, that particular failure will never happen.
Maybe it was the pertronix, I’ve never been a fan of them, I’ve had them DOA right out of the box.
Maybe it was the coil, but no one can tell for certain 100% with the information you provided.
Have a read of this, it may clarify some things.
https://www.google.com/search?q=c2+c...rp#lfId=ChxjMe

 

As I read your symptoms, I guess it could be the Pertronix unit BUT, only if you're is using the Gen 1 or Gen 2 Pertronix Ignitor I / Ingitor II because the most recent Pertronix Ingitor III (Flamethrower) is solid state and not subject to the same failure modes as with earlier version.

Some more details...Both Original or Gen 1 Pertronix Ignitor and Gen 2 Ignitor II used a Magnetic Ring that could shift/warp or delaminate under heat - Creating intermitent failures due to mis-aligned magnets in the ring. This could and reportedly has happened in several cases causing these intermitent failures before it would simply not start / run...


As you can see below, the 3rd Generation Pertronix Ignitor III Does NOT use this magnetic ring and is solid state chip. Thus the failure modes are different and the intermitent failures due to slippage / delamination of the magnetic ring is eliminated.


The crescent shaped piece in the picture above is just an aluminum base to attach the Ignitor III-Flamethrower to the Base Points Plate in the Distributor.
In my years of experience with using Pertronix Ignitor III - I have found it is sensitive to good grounding @ Installation, but otherwise rock solid once running.

I've added these details only to help Warren in diagnosis and maybe as general PSA for those without first hand experience with Pertronix. I want to layout the differences in the 3 versions or Generations of the Pertronix ignition technology because they are much maligned and I believe without specifying which version Is / Is Not having problems... Ironically, Pertronix still sells Gen 1 and Gen 2 versions on their website... I wouldn't buy one unless i needed it for repair of current install and even then upgrade to Gen 3 is simple and better.

 

I would add to SJW's post a good visual inspection of the wiring to the coil and distributor under your distributor shielding and look for smoke/arc evidence under the shielding as it is a known point for the coil wire or other electrical wires to ground to. Only an electrical failure of the ignition system will generally cause an immediate shut down like turning the key off.
1. Coil failing.
2. Pertronix module failing.
3. Intermittent open circuit in the wiring from the - side of the coil to ground within the distributor. Ground wire from breaker plate to distributor body, wire from coil to Pertronix module.

I am not a fan of any electronics under the hood even though today's vehicles seem to be all electronic. The under hood temperature in a C1 or C2 as well as other classics will melt plastic except thermoplastics. I have had several ignition amplifiers fail in a small engine compartment.
Just my $.02

 

The ancient Pertronix that came with the car was a badly delaminated PCB. Second new Pertronix didn't fix breaking up above 4500. Installed Breakerless SE now she rips cleanly to 6500+. If you want to stay electronic, recommend the SE. Not presuming the Pertronix is your problem. But my very old original Pertronix was in very bad shape Larry

 

Kevin,
Very nice explanation between the three different Pertronix systems. Gen III certainly looks like it would be more reliable than the first two...which were horror shows. For Marshall, or anyone else considering leaving points and condenser behind, I might recommend the Breakerless SE system. I have used this system, as have many others, for many, many years without any issues/failures whatsoever. Just another option.