How many more frame mods ?? :)
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
How many more frame mods ?? :)
Hi there Forum members,
I already received a lot of good feedback and help in my quest to get my 77 C3 back on the road. Actually, I thought at one point that I was done with my frame restoration and then many of you pointed me to dozens of mods I should complete while I have the frame hanging off the ceiling. Thanks a lot !
I have the luxury of a large garage, i.e. the car is in a thousand pieces. My MIG welder hasn't cooled down in weeks and before I paint everything, I just wanted to check with you all if I missed something.
List of completed frame work:
- Replaced all rusted sections and strengthened especially the trailing arm mounting area (replaced with thicker steel, thicker pads where the T-arm pin rests, etc.)
- Completed all mods as outline in the Chevy Power service manual (full seam weld on frame, gusseting on control arm brackets, front frame rail boxing, lower control arm reinforcement for stabilizer bar, etc, etc.)
- Modified bolt-on components such as trailing arms (full seam weld, move emergency brake retainer to top). I might go with offset T-arms in the future.
- Fully sandblasted and painted with POR 15 inside and out. Before you ask, I painted the inside of the frame using Eastwood's undercarriage paint gun kit, which comes with anumber of extensions and spray adapters - worked very well.
- I thought about foaming out the whole frame with ITW foamseal at one point. I'm still debating this and will talk to some more people that have done this (mostly rally car drivers trying to stiffen their frames)
Specific Question:
(1) I guess I'll turn the welded-in tranny crossmember into a bolt-in unit as described elsewhere in this forum (TKO install instructions). Performing this mod "only" makes it easier to install and drop the transmission if I feel like it - right? I ask because I can easily install any tranny from the top right now as the body is off. I don't need to change the actual location of the member on the frame - right?
Bonus questions
(2) I want to replace the existing 4-speed with a better transmission. I want at least a 5-speed with OD plus it should handle about 425-475 ftlbs of torque. Seems like a lot of discussions are going on between the Tremec and Keisler camps. Any latest opinions (some seem to even install a Viper 6-speed)? Also, is there really any additional benefit of a 6-speed outside a second OD gear maybe?
(3) My goal is to have a C3 I can drive every day, but also do a little racing if I feel like it. This means improving the handling. Power will be about 450hp 450 ftlbs, which makes me wonder what will break first especially when it comes to the IRS components (Vansteel will be my best friend, I guess). Anything major I should look at for general improvements?
As always, thanks in advance for the help. I made friends around the worls simply by checking in here once in a while. Hope to see you soon on the roads of TX.
I already received a lot of good feedback and help in my quest to get my 77 C3 back on the road. Actually, I thought at one point that I was done with my frame restoration and then many of you pointed me to dozens of mods I should complete while I have the frame hanging off the ceiling. Thanks a lot !
I have the luxury of a large garage, i.e. the car is in a thousand pieces. My MIG welder hasn't cooled down in weeks and before I paint everything, I just wanted to check with you all if I missed something.
List of completed frame work:
- Replaced all rusted sections and strengthened especially the trailing arm mounting area (replaced with thicker steel, thicker pads where the T-arm pin rests, etc.)
- Completed all mods as outline in the Chevy Power service manual (full seam weld on frame, gusseting on control arm brackets, front frame rail boxing, lower control arm reinforcement for stabilizer bar, etc, etc.)
- Modified bolt-on components such as trailing arms (full seam weld, move emergency brake retainer to top). I might go with offset T-arms in the future.
- Fully sandblasted and painted with POR 15 inside and out. Before you ask, I painted the inside of the frame using Eastwood's undercarriage paint gun kit, which comes with anumber of extensions and spray adapters - worked very well.
- I thought about foaming out the whole frame with ITW foamseal at one point. I'm still debating this and will talk to some more people that have done this (mostly rally car drivers trying to stiffen their frames)
Specific Question:
(1) I guess I'll turn the welded-in tranny crossmember into a bolt-in unit as described elsewhere in this forum (TKO install instructions). Performing this mod "only" makes it easier to install and drop the transmission if I feel like it - right? I ask because I can easily install any tranny from the top right now as the body is off. I don't need to change the actual location of the member on the frame - right?
Bonus questions
(2) I want to replace the existing 4-speed with a better transmission. I want at least a 5-speed with OD plus it should handle about 425-475 ftlbs of torque. Seems like a lot of discussions are going on between the Tremec and Keisler camps. Any latest opinions (some seem to even install a Viper 6-speed)? Also, is there really any additional benefit of a 6-speed outside a second OD gear maybe?
(3) My goal is to have a C3 I can drive every day, but also do a little racing if I feel like it. This means improving the handling. Power will be about 450hp 450 ftlbs, which makes me wonder what will break first especially when it comes to the IRS components (Vansteel will be my best friend, I guess). Anything major I should look at for general improvements?
As always, thanks in advance for the help. I made friends around the worls simply by checking in here once in a while. Hope to see you soon on the roads of TX.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
My two cents worth...
1) That's true, unless you are installing a transmission that requires re-location of the cross member.
2) Keisler transmissions ARE Tremecs. The discussions usually center around the cost and whether you want to do the work to make it fit in your car yourself or have all the parts shipped to you ready to assemble.
3) ?? - anybodys guess...
1) That's true, unless you are installing a transmission that requires re-location of the cross member.
2) Keisler transmissions ARE Tremecs. The discussions usually center around the cost and whether you want to do the work to make it fit in your car yourself or have all the parts shipped to you ready to assemble.
3) ?? - anybodys guess...
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by 77TexVette
(3) My goal is to have a C3 I can drive every day, but also do a little racing if I feel like it. This means improving the handling. Power will be about 450hp 450 ftlbs, which makes me wonder what will break first especially when it comes to the IRS components (Vansteel will be my best friend, I guess). Anything major I should look at for general improvements?
.
.
what are you doing for improving the steering capability? this has been the most disappointing aspect of my vette .....until i put in steeroids.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Originally Posted by Z-man
My two cents worth...
1) That's true, unless you are installing a transmission that requires re-location of the cross member.
2) Keisler transmissions ARE Tremecs. The discussions usually center around the cost and whether you want to do the work to make it fit in your car yourself or have all the parts shipped to you ready to assemble.
3) ?? - anybodys guess...
1) That's true, unless you are installing a transmission that requires re-location of the cross member.
2) Keisler transmissions ARE Tremecs. The discussions usually center around the cost and whether you want to do the work to make it fit in your car yourself or have all the parts shipped to you ready to assemble.
3) ?? - anybodys guess...
I'll modify the crossmember so that I can easily drop the tranny later on. That will be it for my frame mods then (finally). Suspension is next and then I see what bank I can rob for a 5 or 6 speed transmission.
Cheers,
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
what are you doing for improving the steering capability? this has been the most disappointing aspect of my vette .....until i put in steeroids.
Front:
PST poly bushings, strengthened lower A-arm stabilizer bar seat. For spring/shocks, I am thinking about good VBP replacement parts or going as far as the monoleaf conversion, maybe even a coilover setup (depends on available $$ of course)
Rear:
Have VBP monoleaf spring. Strengthened the whole trailing arm mounting and kick-up area, seamwelded and generally strengthend trailing arms.
Thinking about offset T-arms, but this can wait. I'll probably add some VBP smart struts or anything that can help with rear camber headaches.
In general, the battle goes on between the perfectionist in me and the guy who just wants to drive his car - quickly
Cheers,
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 534
Likes: 2
From: Cookeville TN
Keisler 5 or 6 Speed
77TexVette,
It sounds like you going to have well-sorted car built for a long, fun life on the road.
A 5 or 6 speed would definitely be inline with all of your goals. You're right about the 6 speed being about that 2nd OD gear, so that is your decision to make.
A Keisler Perfect Fit series 5 speed kit will bolt right in without any chassis, body or interior modifications of any kind, and the kit includes every last nut and bolt, bracket, mount, driveshaft, back-up light harness, etc...
The T56 based 6 speed kit does require you to use our bolt in x member or modify your factory x member with the pieces included in the kit. You will also need to cut 2 recesses in the tunnel, and the kit includes the cutting templates and new sheetmetal.
Robert Hall - Keisler Engineering sales
Direct Line 423-773-9789
Main number 865-609-8187 ext 280
1966 327/300 Factory A/C
Keisler 5 Speed Vette #001 !
It sounds like you going to have well-sorted car built for a long, fun life on the road.
A 5 or 6 speed would definitely be inline with all of your goals. You're right about the 6 speed being about that 2nd OD gear, so that is your decision to make.
A Keisler Perfect Fit series 5 speed kit will bolt right in without any chassis, body or interior modifications of any kind, and the kit includes every last nut and bolt, bracket, mount, driveshaft, back-up light harness, etc...
The T56 based 6 speed kit does require you to use our bolt in x member or modify your factory x member with the pieces included in the kit. You will also need to cut 2 recesses in the tunnel, and the kit includes the cutting templates and new sheetmetal.
Robert Hall - Keisler Engineering sales
Direct Line 423-773-9789
Main number 865-609-8187 ext 280
1966 327/300 Factory A/C
Keisler 5 Speed Vette #001 !
