bleed chevy orange
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,408
Likes: 792
From: Redondo Beach, California
Several of the previous postings allude to GM pricing the Camaro and Firebird out of the market. I don't think it was an entirely price that led to poor sales. Other manufacturers can sell expensive "sporty" cars with no problem. There's the two seater Toyota with the retractable hard top. Did I see a $60,000 price tag on one. I see a lot of them on the street. The supercharged Mustang also is relatively expensive. I think there' a relatively long list of two door "sporty" cars with limited rear seating that are selling well. I'd include the Boxter as an expensive "sporty" car also.
I've always thought that Camaro and Firebird had a quality problem and image problelms. I see a lot of them on the road that are in very poor condition. A friend had one in the early 90's and after a few years the headliner fell out. Then there was the diluted image problem. Sure there were the high performance Z28's with handling packages, etc. But GM also sold a lot of underpowered verstions with cheap interiors. They could make short term profits by borrowing the Z28 image, but the cheap versions just diluted the brand name. I wish GM could have succeeded in a market where others than thrive.
I groan everytime I see a late model Firebird with those cartoon like nostrils on the hood.
I've always thought that Camaro and Firebird had a quality problem and image problelms. I see a lot of them on the road that are in very poor condition. A friend had one in the early 90's and after a few years the headliner fell out. Then there was the diluted image problem. Sure there were the high performance Z28's with handling packages, etc. But GM also sold a lot of underpowered verstions with cheap interiors. They could make short term profits by borrowing the Z28 image, but the cheap versions just diluted the brand name. I wish GM could have succeeded in a market where others than thrive.
I groan everytime I see a late model Firebird with those cartoon like nostrils on the hood.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Norco / Lincoln CA / NE
Originally Posted by ngcolby
I think some have missed the original poster's intent...he is looking for a modern sportscar, that is fairly sporty, looks good, and doesn't cost 55k+ new. Gm doesnt have anything that fits these requirements. Ford does.
I think Pat has nailed it on the farking head, turn that Neon on steroids into something pleasing to the eye, as the new mustang is, and GM would have a runaway winner.
For sure. If GM made a muscle car again people would flock to it. The GM name at the very least sets it above the rest. It is a name my family and I have trusted for year now. They can out perform Ford any day of the week if they woul only try.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
kids lego sets have better fit/finish than the new mustang,it looks good in a magazine but when i saw it in person i thought it was kind of crappy.it has a nice design but trim panels dont line up right and the seats were not comfortable,the chassis felt a little loose in the corners and the hp they claimed just doents feel like its all there during a roadtest.i used to own a stang and tears of joy left my eyes when i sold it,i must have sniffed too much brake cleaner when i bought it.
the thing with a mustang is you get sick of it real fast.at least a vette will retain its value a little better and hold up through the years.
the thing with a mustang is you get sick of it real fast.at least a vette will retain its value a little better and hold up through the years.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Location: at the right hand of Satan in Hell
the other thing that nobody has mentioned yet is the was the stigma that comes with owning a firebird or camaro. the owners are constantly tortured and poked fun at for having mullets, wearing high top tennis shoes and missing teeth. around here a camaro or firebird instantly means one thing: white trash. nobody dares to be seen in one.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 424
Likes: 2
For the price of gas, I'm loking for a 100cc honda. Filled my '68 tank with premium for $30. Still the cheapest thing I ever had to buy for it. The Mustangs look cool, but if I needed a driver, a C4 is cheap, C5's are coming down.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 5
From: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted by 68/70Vette
I groan everytime I see a late model Firebird with those cartoon like nostrils on the hood.
I like my nostrils.
And this baby will turn mid 13s and carry me home from the track getting 25 MPG with the AC blasting.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 0
From: Edgewater (20 miles south of Daytona) Florida
[QUOTE=Clint's C3]I like my nostrils.
Hey, I like them too, but they DON"T MAKE THEM ANYMORE!! Gm has indeed shot it'self in the foot (head?). It is such a crime what the upper management (bean counters) have done to a once great company. We need another Zora in there to tell them to stuff it and go ahead and build what is really wanted anyway. Too bad it can't work that way anymore.
Like was said above, even Mopar (Dam-Chry) got the message and will be fighting back with a Challenger vehicle in 2006. Sad day indeed. I never thought I'd want to own a Ford, but I do love the whole package of the new retro Mustang. My only hope is that all this traffic on the net gets someone in GM to take notice and do the right thing. It's almost too late for GM already with the junk bond deal.
Hey, I like them too, but they DON"T MAKE THEM ANYMORE!! Gm has indeed shot it'self in the foot (head?). It is such a crime what the upper management (bean counters) have done to a once great company. We need another Zora in there to tell them to stuff it and go ahead and build what is really wanted anyway. Too bad it can't work that way anymore.
Like was said above, even Mopar (Dam-Chry) got the message and will be fighting back with a Challenger vehicle in 2006. Sad day indeed. I never thought I'd want to own a Ford, but I do love the whole package of the new retro Mustang. My only hope is that all this traffic on the net gets someone in GM to take notice and do the right thing. It's almost too late for GM already with the junk bond deal.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,143
Likes: 0
From: San Diego California
F-bodies fell out of favor, IMO, with the tuners/gearheads because of the pain-in-the-*** engine compartment. Who wants to change plugs in a LT1 camaro?
it's a B*$#h to work on the F-Bodys
the new mustang,it looks good in a magazine but when i saw it in person i thought it was kind of crappy
the interior is crap
I like my nostrils
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 5
From: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted by Empatho
it's a B*$#h to work on the F-BodysI can't argue with that. I have scars to prove it.
the interior is crapI don't think the black looks bad. I think the new Mustang interiors look sick. The guages are hard to see and plastic chrome around everything looks bad too IMHO. The automatic shift handle is like a bomb release.
I like the look of the WS6 it looks Sweet
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 0
From: pr, frederick md.
Originally Posted by 68/70Vette
Several of the previous postings allude to GM pricing the Camaro and Firebird out of the market. I don't think it was an entirely price that led to poor sales. Other manufacturers can sell expensive "sporty" cars with no problem. There's the two seater Toyota with the retractable hard top. Did I see a $60,000 price tag on one. I see a lot of them on the street. The supercharged Mustang also is relatively expensive. I think there' a relatively long list of two door "sporty" cars with limited rear seating that are selling well. I'd include the Boxter as an expensive "sporty" car also.
I've always thought that Camaro and Firebird had a quality problem and image problelms. I see a lot of them on the road that are in very poor condition. A friend had one in the early 90's and after a few years the headliner fell out. Then there was the diluted image problem. Sure there were the high performance Z28's with handling packages, etc. But GM also sold a lot of underpowered verstions with cheap interiors. They could make short term profits by borrowing the Z28 image, but the cheap versions just diluted the brand name. I wish GM could have succeeded in a market where others than thrive.
I groan everytime I see a late model Firebird with those cartoon like nostrils on the hood.
I've always thought that Camaro and Firebird had a quality problem and image problelms. I see a lot of them on the road that are in very poor condition. A friend had one in the early 90's and after a few years the headliner fell out. Then there was the diluted image problem. Sure there were the high performance Z28's with handling packages, etc. But GM also sold a lot of underpowered verstions with cheap interiors. They could make short term profits by borrowing the Z28 image, but the cheap versions just diluted the brand name. I wish GM could have succeeded in a market where others than thrive.
I groan everytime I see a late model Firebird with those cartoon like nostrils on the hood.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 0
From: pr, frederick md.
Originally Posted by bryan27
the other thing that nobody has mentioned yet is the was the stigma that comes with owning a firebird or camaro. the owners are constantly tortured and poked fun at for having mullets, wearing high top tennis shoes and missing teeth. around here a camaro or firebird instantly means one thing: white trash. nobody dares to be seen in one.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
From: James Island South Carolina
[QUOTE=stingr69]Truth be known, this is the reason we do not have Camaros anymore.
"The real money is made building high volume, high margin trucks and SUV's. That is where the fat market is, so that is what they build. GM is not a charity, they are a "for profit" business."
By the way, has anyone noticed that "Chevrolet High Performance" magazine is looking more like "Chevy Truck Performance" magazine lately? It's okay once in awhile, gotta have something for everyone I suppose. No C3 'Vettes in those pages anyway, but I think it's the best Chevy rag around.
"The real money is made building high volume, high margin trucks and SUV's. That is where the fat market is, so that is what they build. GM is not a charity, they are a "for profit" business."
By the way, has anyone noticed that "Chevrolet High Performance" magazine is looking more like "Chevy Truck Performance" magazine lately? It's okay once in awhile, gotta have something for everyone I suppose. No C3 'Vettes in those pages anyway, but I think it's the best Chevy rag around.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 2
From: New Castle DE
Chevy is going crazy.....there new retro car/truck whatever the HHR is got to be the worse thing i have ever seen. It looks exactly like a PT cruiser i mean they can't come up with their own ideas anymore???? Can't see me ever buying a new car for myself again.....the wife maybe but we'll see lol
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,545
Likes: 3
From: 406ci SB, AFR 180 Heads - 490 HP @5,600 RPM 529 lb-ft @ 4,100 RPM
Originally Posted by Clint's C3
I think so too. It is a pity they don't make them any more. I think the new Charger sucks. It even makes the GTO look good.
my .02
Racer
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Actually it was greedy dealerships that killed the F-body, not GM itself. If you actually looked at the MSRP, they were'nt bad, it was the dealer mark-up that put the cars beyond their intended targets price range. Yeah, GM as a whole should've done something about it but they did'nt. If you dont believe me, go look at a GTO's MSRP and then what the dealer list price is.