Rant on CA bearucracy, exhaust shops, and the retards that run them
02-25-2006, 05:44 PM
#1
Safety Car
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Rant on CA bearucracy, exhaust shops, and the retards that run them
Alright so I'm trying to get my headers tied in to actual exhaust pipes, mainly my SIDE PIPES so I call up a few places and tell them that it doesn't have to smog and I have historical vehicle plates which means that it's exempt from smog. So far I've talked to ONE MAYBE TWO exhaust shop in this whole county full of exhaust that actually know the law on historical plates and will work on it without worry. On to what I'm ranting about.
So today I wanted to at least get an estimate on tying them in to the pipes and I go to two shops. First one is Keany Mesa Discount Muffler, I talked to him on the phone and he said as long as I have the paperwork it's fine. So I go there, which it isn't TOO far from my house, and show him my registration and he doesn't know anything about the smog laws, apparently. So he asks the shop owner next door to him if he knows anything and he just shakes his head no and is all "it came with a cat I won't smog it." Here I am just about to rip their heads off and scream at them "IT DOESN'T HAVE TO F'ING SMOG!!!!" So I tell him fine, I'll have another shop that actually knows wtf the laws are and have them do it and waste my gas getting there. So then I call up Express Muffler and Hitch because they seemed like they may actually not be a bunch of retards and they say to come out around 2pm so I head out there and get there and they know it's me from the loud *** headers echoing off the buildings around me. So I go and the guy asks for the paperwork and I show him the registration that says clearly on it "Historic Vehicle Plates." He knows nothing about it (gee what a suprise) and has to have the owner look at it, who won't be in till Monday. By the way, this place isn't exactly close, it was about 25 - 30 minutes away. So I'm standing there and am like "So you going to look at it and give me an estimate or what?" and he said he never said anything about that. Ok now he just lied to me. So I storm out saying "F&*King wasting my gas!" and tear my tires out in their parking lot.
So I know of ONE place that will indefinitely do the work, and not rip me off, but they're 35 - 45 minutes from my house. Oh and I asked the guy at express muffler what a job like that would generally cost and he figured about $300 to $400 with mounting the sidepipes. Where the hell can they justify 5 hours of labor to do a job that will take 1 maybe 2 hours? The sidepipes take less than 10 minutes to mount, I know because I took them off in 5 and they're only attached with 2 sheet metal bolts on each end. So it looks like I'm going to have to make the long drive to the place that one of the kids that works there prefers working on hondas over corvettes and bragged about having 260hp NA in some import with a 12.5:1 compression ratio.
So to wrap this rant up the retarded government of California needs to make some more damn documentation of what vehicles are EXEMPT from smog and tell all of the damn exhaust shops. If it weren't for so much damn bearucracy I wouldn't be wasting gas and making more pollution for their tree hugging fan club. Also exhaust shops need to quit ripping people off on labor that takes 10 minutes, NOT 2 HOURS. Lastly, retards shouldn't be allowed to run a shop that involves metal and fire.
So today I wanted to at least get an estimate on tying them in to the pipes and I go to two shops. First one is Keany Mesa Discount Muffler, I talked to him on the phone and he said as long as I have the paperwork it's fine. So I go there, which it isn't TOO far from my house, and show him my registration and he doesn't know anything about the smog laws, apparently. So he asks the shop owner next door to him if he knows anything and he just shakes his head no and is all "it came with a cat I won't smog it." Here I am just about to rip their heads off and scream at them "IT DOESN'T HAVE TO F'ING SMOG!!!!" So I tell him fine, I'll have another shop that actually knows wtf the laws are and have them do it and waste my gas getting there. So then I call up Express Muffler and Hitch because they seemed like they may actually not be a bunch of retards and they say to come out around 2pm so I head out there and get there and they know it's me from the loud *** headers echoing off the buildings around me. So I go and the guy asks for the paperwork and I show him the registration that says clearly on it "Historic Vehicle Plates." He knows nothing about it (gee what a suprise) and has to have the owner look at it, who won't be in till Monday. By the way, this place isn't exactly close, it was about 25 - 30 minutes away. So I'm standing there and am like "So you going to look at it and give me an estimate or what?" and he said he never said anything about that. Ok now he just lied to me. So I storm out saying "F&*King wasting my gas!" and tear my tires out in their parking lot.
So I know of ONE place that will indefinitely do the work, and not rip me off, but they're 35 - 45 minutes from my house. Oh and I asked the guy at express muffler what a job like that would generally cost and he figured about $300 to $400 with mounting the sidepipes. Where the hell can they justify 5 hours of labor to do a job that will take 1 maybe 2 hours? The sidepipes take less than 10 minutes to mount, I know because I took them off in 5 and they're only attached with 2 sheet metal bolts on each end. So it looks like I'm going to have to make the long drive to the place that one of the kids that works there prefers working on hondas over corvettes and bragged about having 260hp NA in some import with a 12.5:1 compression ratio.
So to wrap this rant up the retarded government of California needs to make some more damn documentation of what vehicles are EXEMPT from smog and tell all of the damn exhaust shops. If it weren't for so much damn bearucracy I wouldn't be wasting gas and making more pollution for their tree hugging fan club. Also exhaust shops need to quit ripping people off on labor that takes 10 minutes, NOT 2 HOURS. Lastly, retards shouldn't be allowed to run a shop that involves metal and fire.
02-25-2006, 05:51 PM
#2
I'd go over to see Ed Hansen in Casa De Oro...he has done my exhaust...(78 with 2-1-2 system) or call him..he does performance exhaust...he and I had a chat about the "illegal" duals/cats on my 78..he said in my case,it would be difficult to get a waiver...(duals were on my 78 for 26 years,in California,but I was never caught) PO had put them on before I bought it in 1979...think the issue you have is it is not clear yet about exemption for smog re Historical Plates...
This is what I got away with..smog testers never looked under vette...when one pancake cat clogged,I went to get new high flow cats installed..that is when I hit the wall...oh yeah,I could have installed them myself,but run a risk of getting caught..
This is what I got away with..smog testers never looked under vette...when one pancake cat clogged,I went to get new high flow cats installed..that is when I hit the wall...oh yeah,I could have installed them myself,but run a risk of getting caught..
Last edited by rihwoods; 02-25-2006 at 05:57 PM.
02-25-2006, 07:19 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Kalway
Casa De Oro? Where's that? Sounds like an hour+ drive from Mira Mesa.
See PM for phone/address...
Rich
02-25-2006, 07:33 PM
#5
I know you don't want to hear it (again), but...
Historical plates or not, you still need the smog equipment that came with the car. The exhaust shops are correct in interpreting/following the law.
Just because you went out and got historical plates, doesn't mean you can remove the smog equipment. You may be exempt from testing, but you are not exempt from having the equipment present on your car. Try driving to a muffer shop in Mojave or AZ. The shops in Calif. face a stiff fine from the C.A.R.B. if they get caught.
Good luck to you!
...
Historical plates or not, you still need the smog equipment that came with the car. The exhaust shops are correct in interpreting/following the law.
Just because you went out and got historical plates, doesn't mean you can remove the smog equipment. You may be exempt from testing, but you are not exempt from having the equipment present on your car. Try driving to a muffer shop in Mojave or AZ. The shops in Calif. face a stiff fine from the C.A.R.B. if they get caught.
Good luck to you!
...
Last edited by TonySinclair; 02-25-2006 at 07:59 PM.
02-26-2006, 12:12 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Santee CA
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair
I know you don't want to hear it (again), but...
Historical plates or not, you still need the smog equipment that came with the car. The exhaust shops are correct in interpreting/following the law.
Just because you went out and got historical plates, doesn't mean you can remove the smog equipment. You may be exempt from testing, but you are not exempt from having the equipment present on your car. Try driving to a muffer shop in Mojave or AZ. The shops in Calif. face a stiff fine from the C.A.R.B. if they get caught.
Good luck to you!
...
Historical plates or not, you still need the smog equipment that came with the car. The exhaust shops are correct in interpreting/following the law.
Just because you went out and got historical plates, doesn't mean you can remove the smog equipment. You may be exempt from testing, but you are not exempt from having the equipment present on your car. Try driving to a muffer shop in Mojave or AZ. The shops in Calif. face a stiff fine from the C.A.R.B. if they get caught.
Good luck to you!
...
Kinda have to agree here.
The laws regarding cats are federal, and there is a HUGE fine for an exhaust shop to violate said laws.
Historic plates or not, the shops are well within their rights to refuse service in removing your cats and running true dual exhaust. You're in effect trying to circumvent the smog laws by using the historic plates, and in actuality, would be violating federal laws by running the car without the factory smog equipment, because without the historic plates you'd have to have the car smogged anyway.
The exhaust shop is erring on the side of legality. I agree that it was kind of slimy of the exhaust shops to get you to come in, because what you're asking them to do is VERY, VERY gray. For all they knew, you could've been part of a sting operation.
02-26-2006, 12:30 AM
#9
Drifting
I just got historical plates on my Vette here in Maryland. It's true I no longer have to do the Emissions test. It's also true that I STILL HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE SMOG EQUIPEMENT. Including the cat. It's a FEDERAL Law dude. So you can rant and rave all you want - there is no getting around the Federal Law - if you still want to run your car on the streets - to keep ALL the SMOG gear installed.
02-26-2006, 03:00 AM
#12
[QUOTE=rihwoods]I'd go over to see Ed Hansen in Casa De Oro...he has done my exhaust...(78 with 2-1-2 system) or call him..he does performance exhaust...
Try Ed Hansen's - they have always done right for me...
Try Ed Hansen's - they have always done right for me...
02-26-2006, 04:35 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
California smog laws are more restrictive than the federal smog laws. You can buy a vehicle that is 49 state certified if you dont live in CA and can only buy a vehicle in CA if its a CA "CARB" smog certified car. There are a few exceptions but they are limited. In CA 1975 (I think, 30 year rule right?) and older cars are not required to be inspected.
Even though the smog laws are federal its up to the state and local governments to enforce them and the federal agencies wont get involved.
I think what Kalway is trying to say is that his vehicle doesnt even need to be tested and therefore nobody would even know if his equipment is there or not and nobody is going to enforce the smog violations.
Cant he say his modifications to his car are for racing and then his car wouldnt even fall under the law and any shop could perform the work?
Man im glad I live in TN, they have emission testing but it isnt anything like CA or other places.
Even though the smog laws are federal its up to the state and local governments to enforce them and the federal agencies wont get involved.
I think what Kalway is trying to say is that his vehicle doesnt even need to be tested and therefore nobody would even know if his equipment is there or not and nobody is going to enforce the smog violations.
Cant he say his modifications to his car are for racing and then his car wouldnt even fall under the law and any shop could perform the work?
Man im glad I live in TN, they have emission testing but it isnt anything like CA or other places.
02-26-2006, 07:52 AM
#14
Drifting
Originally Posted by LittleJake
California smog laws are more restrictive than the federal smog laws. You can buy a vehicle that is 49 state certified if you dont live in CA and can only buy a vehicle in CA if its a CA "CARB" smog certified car. There are a few exceptions but they are limited. In CA 1975 (I think, 30 year rule right?) and older cars are not required to be inspected.
Even though the smog laws are federal its up to the state and local governments to enforce them and the federal agencies wont get involved.
I think what Kalway is trying to say is that his vehicle doesnt even need to be tested and therefore nobody would even know if his equipment is there or not and nobody is going to enforce the smog violations.
Cant he say his modifications to his car are for racing and then his car wouldnt even fall under the law and any shop could perform the work?
Man im glad I live in TN, they have emission testing but it isnt anything like CA or other places.
Even though the smog laws are federal its up to the state and local governments to enforce them and the federal agencies wont get involved.
I think what Kalway is trying to say is that his vehicle doesnt even need to be tested and therefore nobody would even know if his equipment is there or not and nobody is going to enforce the smog violations.
Cant he say his modifications to his car are for racing and then his car wouldnt even fall under the law and any shop could perform the work?
Man im glad I live in TN, they have emission testing but it isnt anything like CA or other places.
02-26-2006, 01:04 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Count me in #3 for Ed Hansen- his shop is the absolute BEST in SD county and whatever answer he gives you will most likely be on the up-and-up; he has been servicing hotrodders for many years, the work is top-notch and his prices are fair
02-26-2006, 07:14 PM
#16
Originally Posted by IrishJoker
CA has been known to run "STING" operations on exhaust shops.
You read about these in the local paper about every 6 months. C.A.R.B. has a fleet of "cheater" cars that they take around to smog shops to see if they can get the shop to "bend" the rules. Exhaust & general repair shops are targets too.
02-26-2006, 07:22 PM
#17
Race Director
Hmmm... I thought historic plates only exempt you from testing. That doesn't mean the car doesn't have to comply. Big difference! All 1968 and newer cars are part of the emissions regulations and a shop cannot modify emisison related items such as exhaust. Historic plates means you, the owner, won't fail a smog test. The shop can still loose its license and whatever fine there is. I heard $20K per incident?
02-26-2006, 10:20 PM
#18
Originally Posted by zwede
Hmmm... I thought historic plates only exempt you from testing. That doesn't mean the car doesn't have to comply. Big difference! All 1968 and newer cars are part of the emissions regulations and a shop cannot modify emisison related items such as exhaust. Historic plates means you, the owner, won't fail a smog test. The shop can still loose its license and whatever fine there is. I heard $20K per incident?
Rich
02-26-2006, 10:23 PM
#19
Originally Posted by birdsmith
Count me in #3 for Ed Hansen- his shop is the absolute BEST in SD county and whatever answer he gives you will most likely be on the up-and-up; he has been servicing hotrodders for many years, the work is top-notch and his prices are fair
