quick question - ground connections
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Hartland WI
quick question - ground connections
When connecting the grounds to the frame where does the star washer go?
Is it... Frame - star washer - negative cable - bolt
or Frame - negative cable - star washer - bolt
I'm cleaning up my connections and the one under the drivers side was the first way and the one up by the block was the second way. Which is correct.
Thanks
Is it... Frame - star washer - negative cable - bolt
or Frame - negative cable - star washer - bolt
I'm cleaning up my connections and the one under the drivers side was the first way and the one up by the block was the second way. Which is correct.
Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Originally Posted by blue by you
It should be the second way.The washer should always be next to the bolt head or nut.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Hartland WI
Thanks for the replies.
I just got back from the napa store picking up some supplies and I asked the guy there the same question. He said the opposite... said something about the prongs on the star washer helping bite into the metal of the frame resulting in better contact
I guess it can't make too much difference as long as the metal is clean and the connections are tight.
I just got back from the napa store picking up some supplies and I asked the guy there the same question. He said the opposite... said something about the prongs on the star washer helping bite into the metal of the frame resulting in better contact
I guess it can't make too much difference as long as the metal is clean and the connections are tight.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Originally Posted by Vette Rx
I guess it can't make too much difference as long as the metal is clean and the connections are tight.
Remember that the purpose of the lock washer to is prevent the bolt from loosening.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
Your right, it does not matter a whole lot as long as its tight and clean, but the washer is between the bolt and fastner. Use No-ox if you can find it on the connection, its an anti-oxident grease for electrical connections, good stuff
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
According to my AIMs, the star washer goes between the frame and cable.
This is to ensure good electrical contact through the painted surface.
I'm not going to debate it here, but the star washer is NOT to lock the bolt/nut.
A split ring lock washer should be used for this.
Someone must have pulled the motor ground at some point and reassembled incorrectly.
This is to ensure good electrical contact through the painted surface.
I'm not going to debate it here, but the star washer is NOT to lock the bolt/nut.
A split ring lock washer should be used for this.
Someone must have pulled the motor ground at some point and reassembled incorrectly.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
Originally Posted by NHvette
According to my AIMs, the star washer goes between the frame and cable.
This is to ensure good electrical contact through the painted surface.
I'm not going to debate it here, but the star washer is NOT to lock the bolt/nut.
A split ring lock washer should be used for this.
Someone must have pulled the motor ground at some point and reassembled incorrectly.
This is to ensure good electrical contact through the painted surface.
I'm not going to debate it here, but the star washer is NOT to lock the bolt/nut.
A split ring lock washer should be used for this.
Someone must have pulled the motor ground at some point and reassembled incorrectly.
The star washer goes between the frame and the cable.
Outside star washers have the teeth on the outside diameter of the washer as opposed to inside star washers that have the teeth in the inside.
In addition to being locking washers, GM used star washers, usually outside type, to cut through paint for electrical grounding. Most people have them installed wrong. When an electrical ground like on the radiator support is installed, the star washer is between the ring terminal and the chassis ground point not under the bolt head. Those that are not familiar put them between the bolt head and the ring terminal to lock the bolt, wrong!
Check your AIM for the hook up of the horn relay and the various grounding straps, exhaust etc. You will see they specify the location of the star washer.
When GM went to largely computerized systems with ground returns, they found the star washers didn't work as well a they had thought and now they specify removing the paint and grounding the lead directly. During the first few years of computerized systems there were a number of TSB's dealing with this. The fix was to eliminate the star washers and ground the lead directly to chassis ground.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Hartland WI
Thanks for the helpful replies. When I posted this I never thought this topic could turn into a debate
Anyway, I'm going to keep the star washer between the frame and the cable like it was under my passenger side ground connection. This one didn't look like it had been touched in a long time, if at all. I know the front one has been disconnected for an engine rebuild so that was probably reassembled wrong.
When I posted this I never thought this topic could turn into a debate Anyway, I'm going to keep the star washer between the frame and the cable like it was under my passenger side ground connection. This one didn't look like it had been touched in a long time, if at all. I know the front one has been disconnected for an engine rebuild so that was probably reassembled wrong.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,186
Likes: 45
From: detroit area
just clean to bare metal and once u r finished attaching the cable, just us some por or rustoleum and coat it so it's all covered and u don't have to worry about oxidizing....... or am i wrong?
b
b
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Ooops, guess I was wrong about the star washer locking the bolt. Man I hate being wrong when the whole world can see... :o
I still think the star washer between lug and frame is an obvious source of corrosion. Personally I scrape off any dirt, oxidation or PAINT on an electrical surface before attaching the lug.
<---me in 50 minutes.
I still think the star washer between lug and frame is an obvious source of corrosion. Personally I scrape off any dirt, oxidation or PAINT on an electrical surface before attaching the lug.
<---me in 50 minutes.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 1
From: New Cumberland PA
If you scrape the paint away, you're creating a place for oxidation. When using the star washer it will dig through the paint at the point of contact leaving a smaller area to oxidize, corrode, rust...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
... a finger full of thick grease will help to protect either case after tightening it down.
I DO agree that a flat clean surface with more contact area WILL
provide better electrical connection. That's basic electrical theory.
If doing this - no star washer is needed. Use a regular lock washer on
the nut. I'm not that keen on scraping down my newly painted frame ...
so I used the star washer.
For a case like this, I have some nice (and expensive) EMI/RFI
coating silver conductive paint. It's $400 a can - so not practical to
use on everyday cars. You'd paint the surface and bolt the cable right
to the painted surface - done. I didn't use it here, but I did restore my
horn button - works great.
before:
http://NHvette.com/ftp/in/75_horn_button_01.jpg
after:
http://NHvette.com/ftp/in/75_horn_button_02.jpg
I DO agree that a flat clean surface with more contact area WILL
provide better electrical connection. That's basic electrical theory.
If doing this - no star washer is needed. Use a regular lock washer on
the nut. I'm not that keen on scraping down my newly painted frame ...
so I used the star washer.
For a case like this, I have some nice (and expensive) EMI/RFI
coating silver conductive paint. It's $400 a can - so not practical to
use on everyday cars. You'd paint the surface and bolt the cable right
to the painted surface - done. I didn't use it here, but I did restore my
horn button - works great.
before:
http://NHvette.com/ftp/in/75_horn_button_01.jpg
after:
http://NHvette.com/ftp/in/75_horn_button_02.jpg