Emission Impossible
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
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From: Washington DC
Emission Impossible
Does anyone know the emissions standards in 1977? I am buying a 77 from another forum member that has a 383 crate motor, straight pipes, and aggressive cam. DC requires even classic vehicles to pass an emissions test (
!). I know in 77 they had those 454 motors and cats werent required on all vehicles yet (I think), so I'm thinking maybe it'll pass? Thoughts?
(yes the title is stolen from family guy)
!). I know in 77 they had those 454 motors and cats werent required on all vehicles yet (I think), so I'm thinking maybe it'll pass? Thoughts?(yes the title is stolen from family guy)
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
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From: San Diego CA
Well... if it's only a sniffer test, ethanol can be used to get it to pass... Are there any E85 stations nearby? What you'll need to do is get that that air/fuel ratio as perfect as possible and then richen it up a bit to run a 1/4 E85 and 3/4 premium gas mix. Put a 195 degree thermostat in so it gets as hot as possible and it should burn pretty clean. If ethanol isn't available... good luck? Register it as an antique?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
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From: San Antonio TX
Cats were in place by '74 for all cars. Trucks were exempt. There was no 454 in '77. You will never pass with straight pipes(visual inspection) and the cam will do you in for sure(depending on what aggressive is).
Show up with truck plates and you're golden.
Show up with truck plates and you're golden.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,628
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From: Duvall, WA
Originally Posted by gerry72
Cats were in place by '74 for all cars. Trucks were exempt. There was no 454 in '77. You will never pass with straight pipes(visual inspection) and the cam will do you in for sure(depending on what aggressive is).
Show up with truck plates and you're golden.
Show up with truck plates and you're golden.
Sounds like you are going to have a lot of work ahead of you if you want things to be kosher.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,738
Likes: 2
From: San diego ca
also no true duals for 77 - the single cat would be located under the passenger seat behind the crossmember - this 2-1-2 exhaust system really chokes the motor down.
You would also have EGR, EFE, AIR (most likely) if these and other emissions items are mission you probably wont get past a visual inspection - let alone a sniffer test.
I see this all the time in CA. the number of cars for sale that in the Ad say "Will not pass smog" and then list reams of aftermarket modifications is really quite surprising. Unfortunately for those sellers CA law says that the seller is responsible to provide the smog cert for transfer of title
You would also have EGR, EFE, AIR (most likely) if these and other emissions items are mission you probably wont get past a visual inspection - let alone a sniffer test.
I see this all the time in CA. the number of cars for sale that in the Ad say "Will not pass smog" and then list reams of aftermarket modifications is really quite surprising. Unfortunately for those sellers CA law says that the seller is responsible to provide the smog cert for transfer of title
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,694
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From: Oregon
IF it is a 49 state emission car, you shouldn't need to have anymore smog equipment than is listed on the emission sticker under the hood. If it is a "California" emission car, you can bet that every emission device was required. Sort of like my 80. From what I understand, the California emission 1980 was the only one equiped with a 305, computer, and check engine light. The 49 state version had the 350 and no computer until 1981. Correct me if Im wrong please.
You might want to try and look up the emission sticker on line at the Ecklers or Mid America site and see what was on both cars. Just a suggestion.
Good luck
You might want to try and look up the emission sticker on line at the Ecklers or Mid America site and see what was on both cars. Just a suggestion.
Good luck
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
It would be a lot easier to answer the question if we knew where you were, but your profile is blank.
1) any change from federally mandated emissions equipment is a no-no.
2) depending on where you are there might not be any checks in place to cause you any trouble, even if you're totally non-compliant.
1) any change from federally mandated emissions equipment is a no-no.
2) depending on where you are there might not be any checks in place to cause you any trouble, even if you're totally non-compliant.
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Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by VettePower
If you live in Texas, register it as an Antique.
No inspections whatsoever!!!!!
No inspections whatsoever!!!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 61,415
Likes: 478
From: Here to make friends
St. Jude Donor '11, '16-'17
His original post says DC. I have no idea what the laws are there. My '80 was able to pass emissions in Spokane with a performance cam, headers, and the air pump removed, but it still has the 2-1-2 exhaust with a high flow cat. There must not have been a visual inspection there.
If you have a visual inspection, I wouldn't buy that car. You can spend a fortune finding all of the original emissions equipment and reinstalling it.
If you have a visual inspection, I wouldn't buy that car. You can spend a fortune finding all of the original emissions equipment and reinstalling it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,625
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From: Cut n Shoot TX
Originally Posted by I'm Batman
Usually comes with driving restrictions, too, in most states.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
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From: Washington DC
In my original post I said I was from DC (to all who asked)
For those of you who dont know, DC is a little ... lax in some areas. I have NEVER seen them get under a car and look for cats, but I have seen them fail someone for not having window washer fluid. Antique plated cars STILL have to get emissions testing in DC. Will putting a couple gallons of ethanol in the tank hurt anything? The motor is carbed, does ethanol throw of timing?
For those of you who dont know, DC is a little ... lax in some areas. I have NEVER seen them get under a car and look for cats, but I have seen them fail someone for not having window washer fluid. Antique plated cars STILL have to get emissions testing in DC. Will putting a couple gallons of ethanol in the tank hurt anything? The motor is carbed, does ethanol throw of timing?
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by karioth
In my original post I said I was from DC (to all who asked)
For those of you who dont know, DC is a little ... lax in some areas. I have NEVER seen them get under a car and look for cats, but I have seen them fail someone for not having window washer fluid. Antique plated cars STILL have to get emissions testing in DC. Will putting a couple gallons of ethanol in the tank hurt anything? The motor is carbed, does ethanol throw of timing?
For those of you who dont know, DC is a little ... lax in some areas. I have NEVER seen them get under a car and look for cats, but I have seen them fail someone for not having window washer fluid. Antique plated cars STILL have to get emissions testing in DC. Will putting a couple gallons of ethanol in the tank hurt anything? The motor is carbed, does ethanol throw of timing?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by karioth
In my original post I said I was from DC (to all who asked)
Originally Posted by VettePower
I haven't had any problems at all in the 3 years I have had my Antique tags. Although maybe because I only drive it on nice days on the weekends.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
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From: Washington DC
yeah in DC the rules are funky. Tahnks for the suggestion I will definitely look to find some ethanol. Whats the most I can put in safely? Will it harm anything? I have a 5 gallon gas tank I can store it in until emissions time
Also ... should I mix in regular unleaded gas with the ethanol since its cammed to run at 93 and E-85 is 105 octane? (depending of course on how much I can mix in)
Also ... should I mix in regular unleaded gas with the ethanol since its cammed to run at 93 and E-85 is 105 octane? (depending of course on how much I can mix in)
Last edited by karioth; Sep 14, 2006 at 03:39 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
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From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by karioth
yeah in DC the rules are funky. Tahnks for the suggestion I will definitely look to find some ethanol. Whats the most I can put in safely? Will it harm anything? I have a 5 gallon gas tank I can store it in until emissions time
Also ... should I mix in regular unleaded gas with the ethanol since its cammed to run at 93 and E-85 is 105 octane? (depending of course on how much I can mix in)
Also ... should I mix in regular unleaded gas with the ethanol since its cammed to run at 93 and E-85 is 105 octane? (depending of course on how much I can mix in)
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
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From: Washington DC
another thing about DC is there is 1 inspection station for the city, so going there re-defines "hassle" I'll put in 3 gallons of E85 and the rest regular and let you guys know what happens.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2006
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I'm a little late to the party but I have a few suggestions. We do have emissions testing (sniffer and visual) here in Phoenix. The '77 L82 motor had an A.I.R. pump, the L48 did not. Even though the motor is not original, if the car originally had an A.I.R pump, they'll check for it.
I changed the exhaust to be true duals, but I put a high flow cat on each side. They use a mirror to check for cats and they've never failed me. Also, they do not check for the EGR valve.
Recently my 80 L82 failed the sniffer portion miserably (one test was nearly triple the limit). I found two vacuum lines that were switched on the carb. I also knocked the timing down from 12 to 6 degrees advanced, per the sticker under the hood. I also adjusted the idle mixture to 1/4 turn lean. I learned setting them too lean will cause a lean mixture misfire which will make it fail. Anyway, something in those adjustments allowed the car pass with flying colors.
Although I didn't try this, one guy told me to add a bottle of rubbing alcohol to a tankfull of gas.
Brian
I changed the exhaust to be true duals, but I put a high flow cat on each side. They use a mirror to check for cats and they've never failed me. Also, they do not check for the EGR valve.
Recently my 80 L82 failed the sniffer portion miserably (one test was nearly triple the limit). I found two vacuum lines that were switched on the carb. I also knocked the timing down from 12 to 6 degrees advanced, per the sticker under the hood. I also adjusted the idle mixture to 1/4 turn lean. I learned setting them too lean will cause a lean mixture misfire which will make it fail. Anyway, something in those adjustments allowed the car pass with flying colors.
Although I didn't try this, one guy told me to add a bottle of rubbing alcohol to a tankfull of gas.
Brian
