I'm gonna go ahead and swallow a lot of ego on this one, but what is the "correct" way to down-shift? I've been driving stick for a while (3 years), and usually what i do is...

1. clutch in, off gas
2. shift while tapping or holding gas (depending on # of gears down)
3. clutch out, off gas, letting RPM's drop down just a little to the tranny speed (it makes sense that its easier on the tranny to let the engine speed down to tranny speed than speed up to tranny speed)

However I was driving my GF's Audi 80 the other day and I tried downshifting into gear while hitting the gas just before letting the clutch it. I expected a little jerk forward but it actually worked perfectly it seemed. Just wondering what you guys do for down-shifting. My dad never gave me any formal training on stick shift, I had to learn myself... plus he drives like an old geezer.

BTW this was spurred because my downshifts are slow (around 1 second), and ive seen many videos where people seem to be able to downshift in a small fraction of a second... which matters if giving someone da business

 

Sounds like you are doing it right and the diff from the geezer car, is that the trannys are night and day. Keep doing your cAr like you have been.

 

It depends on why your down shifting?
If it is to slow down, no throttle bump.
if it is to get the gear for passing , climbing hill,
have power at the ready,
a touch of gas to equalise the engine rpm to the
input shafts gear ratio change.
Now there are two schools of thought on braking
with gears;
not good..... wears clutch disc vs brake pads. (which would you like to change?)
good.... lets engine compression slow car saves brakes (pads rotors)
Some back pressure is good on the rings,
Either way, the less stress you put on the tranny when useing
clutch the better for bushings, bearings, clutch disc, flywheel
ect.
after you get rolling, shifting at the right time, (with proper throttle)
you don't even need a clutch.
The smoother your shifting technique the better your passenger
and drive train like it

 

Let off gas, push the clutch in, shift, let off clutch slowly. The RPM's should increase, if the tires lock up and chirp, you shouldn't have downshifted

OR

Let off gas, shift out of gear, raise rpms slightly with gas pedal, shift into lower gear - No clutch needed: If you hear grinding, oops...
OR

Let off gas, push clutch in, shift, floor it, drop clutch and smoke tires. Not the best for equipment, but it's a sports car right?

 

The first rule is: Brake pads are much cheaper than driveline parts and motors.

#2 always do the majority of braking while the car is going in a straight line (NOT TURNING INTO CORNER)

#3 Heel and toe is the real correct way. Your ball of your foot is mashing the brake petal on your heel is blipping the gas to rpm match your gear choice to the rear tires. (Lots and lots of practice to master)

I'm concerned about parts breakage and this 5 speed is a new thing in my Vette. So the parts have a priority over fastest lap time or ultimate street driving. I'm working on heel and toe, but the majority of the time I just wait for the last second braking. Stomp on the brakes and as the speed comes down be thinking about what gear you need to be in through or exiting the turn. I stab the clutch in and select the gear of my choice while still braking. (So I might be skipping from 4th to 2nd) Maybe glace at the speedo to ensure that I'm not going too fast and cause a compression lockup. Then I let the clutch out medium fast. That way your getting a little compression braking, but not enough to cause the rear to kick out because your now decreasing the brake petal and turning.

The big thing is practice. Think about how your going to enter the turn. Like when your blasting towards a 35 mph on ramp at 80 and know you can take it at 50 mph.

 

is this for the street or for racing?

whatever you do, do net let the clutch slip, let it come up as quick as possible unless you want to burn up your clutch disc.

 

Everything I have seen is you use your toe (or ball of your foot) on the brake and rotate your heel to blip the throttle.

I am trying to learn heel-toe and suck at it right now. It is much easier in the C5 than in the C3 IMO. The C5 peddals match up better when braking and there is more room to rotate your leg to get your heel in the right position. But I'm gonna learn to do it in the C3 too.

 

Your right I can't talk on the phone and type at the same time.

1. Remove your shoes and get in the seat.

2. Adjust your seat and the steering wheel so that your left knee is slightly flexed when the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor and your knee does not hit the bottom of the steering wheel when you let off the clutch.

3. Start with your left foot on the dead pedal to the left of the clutch.

4. Practice moving your left foot quickly to press the clutch pedal to the floor with the ball of your foot, let it go and return your foot to the dead pedal. Practice this move until you can do it without thinking at lightning speed.

5. Now rest your right foot lightly on the accelerator pedal.

6. Move your foot quickly to the brake and press the brake pedal firmly with the BALL of your right foot only. (This is the fleshy/bony part right under your big toe). Keep your foot stiff and parallel to the floor. Do not let it twist or flop over. At this point, most of your foot should be hanging off the right side of the brake pedal, your heel should be resting lightly on the floor and when the brake pedal is depressed, you should feel the accelerator pedal come into light contact with the right side of your foot.

7. Let off on the brake and move your foot back to the accelerator.

8. Practice this maneuver until you can do it without thinking at lightning speed without pressing the accelerator pedal.

9. From now on, ALWAYS apply the brakes this way. ALWAYS. If you look down your leg, you will see that the big toe is in line with your shin. So is the ball, making this straight line the vector of the most force. Use it.

 

it all depends on what kind of trans, clutch and stick you have...lets say you have a sport short throw stick and streight cut gears...first you have to 'understand' your trans, your right hand must be sensible to the inner gears as the stick goes through them, each trans has its way, your hand must learn where are the weak and the harsh points in going through gears and here you need experience, there is no book or written advice good enough to learn from. anyway best shift sistem is give throttle to prepare the engine revs to go streight into max torq when receiving the shorter gear in...for example, if you're in third at lets say 3.000 rpms cruising and need to overpass, give sudden gas and put the engine at its max tq figure, depending on the engine of course but lets say that it is at 5.000 rpms, well, engine must be there waiting for the incoming gear...from 5.000 you go streight to whatever rev level is your max hp performance, next change must be done at about 300 rpms before stalling and power falling down and so on...there are racing gears that won't enter if you dont hammer the throttle for a sec, specially if you're going full on a bend...generally, on my opinion, there is no way to understand how to change manual gears if you dont do it through bends, the beauty of a manual trans is there, it expresses itself helping the driver to drive faster then auto in sharp bends, manual trans is not only for going from 0 to 60...it's mainly to go to 60, back to 10 then to 100 and back to 30 in the smoothest way and following the engine revs from max torque to max power and back...

 

i guess i need to provide a little more details as to what im doing...

1. im going for fastest most effective shift for racing without destroying my tranny (theoretically you would want to just keep foot and gas and switch gears as fast as possible if all you cared about was time.)

2. This is on a vette with around 500 hp and the stock 4 spd tranny with a dual friction clutch, so the clutch is pretty grabby

3. my daily driver is a nissan pulsar with under 100 hp, it is also a manual and i think my current downshift technique is best for that (casual driving).

4. I do not know how to power shift (clutchless shifting) because learning how seems like it would be very rough on the transmission cause of accidental grinding... I would rather just use the clutch

 

Here's my input: With out going into the "How" of it--that is well explained above--I'll try to explain the "Why" simply which may make it easier to understand...
You are trying to match engine speed to gearshaft speed at the different ratios involved. ("Sychromesh" shifters on modern trannies reduce the need for this, but it's still good to get in the habit of doing it yourself.)
You've heard of "double-clutching" probably, this was how it was done before synchros. For upshifts, you need to know the correct engine rpm for the shift point so the trans mainshaft and countershaft gears will mesh without grinding when the engine rpm falls to the lower speed. To down shift you let the clutch out while the trans is in the neutral gate and rev the engine to match mainshaft to countershaft speeds, and then push the clutch in again to shift into your lower gear.
The only reason for disengaging the clutch is to reduce the pressure on the gear teeth for easier engagement and disengagement of the gears.

I have many years driving old pickups both with and without synchro trannys. I would typically only use the clutch when starting from a stop. From then on, for upshifts I would let up slightly on the gas to "relax" the gears, slide the shifter into the neutral gate, let the engine rpm drop to the correct level and slide it into the next gear. To down shift, poke the gas just enought to relax the gears so I could slide it into neutral, rev the engine to the correct rpm and slide it into the lower gear. No clutch used at all, unless I had to come to a stop. Drove like this for years. Shifts can actually be made faster this way than using the clutch, although in my old trucks, this was not my point. (I guess my point was I was too lazy to lift my leg if I didn't need to!)
That is what many Formula racers (at least in the old days-I don't know about now) did. Their trannys were "crash boxes", that is, no synchro, and once rolling they never touched the clutch to shift. That's how they shifted so fast. I would not recommend practicing this technique if your are not very at home with your car. But if you know of an old truck you can practice on.........It is fun to see the reactions of your passengers as you drive around town without ever touching the clutch!

John

 

Once you learn the "rhythm" it's the only way. You can shift as if it were an automatic. It takes a lot of practice and hopefully not on your main car. Clutches almost last forever.

 

Not to sound like a jerk, but power shifting and clutchless shifting arent the same thing. Power shifting is when you upshift by keeping the gas pedal floors, push the clutch in, grab the gear, and drop the clutch. Clutchless shifting is when the tranny can be shifted between gears without having to disengage the clutch.

 

I never down shift to slow down unless it's an emergency or you want to sound cool. This may sound silly, but grandpa taught me that,said it was hard on drivechains.If I need to grab a lower gear,a little rap on the throttle and she goes in smooth. I ride my bikes the same way.
Take her out of gear and use the brakes, there cheap. In my auto tranny truck while towing I use the gears,but thats normal.
Right or wrong,don't know,but clutches are not an issue at my house.....

 

Here ya go, watch this

Check out his footwork

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/w...db3f41d4d1.htm

 

Great video. I was also watching the tach as he was downshifting. Very interesting.

 

Yeah, thats what I thought also, back when I was first starting out on a semi (learning) the guy teaching me said he didnt want to see my foot go for the clutch unless I was taking off from a complete stop. Peace,,,Moosie