Is this numbers matching?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Ocala FL
I think it's hard to be sure Moosie. If you've got all the original documentation, work order for the dealer, r whatever, then maybe. I still think it would be looked at as a NOM though.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,547
Likes: 12
From: Carbondale Pa.
Yeah, if it was replaced under warranty , not as an upgrade, cause that was done also. So it could be #'s matching but NOM ? Providing there is proof of the "repair" ? Only questions,, no answers! Peace,,,Moosie 
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington NC
I don't think any documentation is with the car. I kinda thought it wouldn't be, but seemed like I read something on here a while back that made me second guess. With that said, I was looking at buying this '69 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/corve...94967929QQrdZ1. I know the frame is FULL of rust, but that can be replaced. The seller says the pillars are ok, but with that much rust on the frame, wouldn't the rest of that car be a rust bucket?
-Shark Man
-Shark Man
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington NC
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Ocala FL
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,481
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
If the engine had been replaced in the heavy repair section at St. Louis before the car was shipped, the VIN derivative would have been stamped on the replacement engine by assembly plant personnel. That would meet the definition of "matching numbers" since the car left St. Louis with a block replaced at the factory and with the correct VIN.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
By your definition, anything put on the car by the dealer would then be non-original. How about a luggage rack [only put on by the dealer]? How about a right side mirror? The point is, if the car was repaired for a defect MADE BY THE FACTORY, why is the replacement block not considered NOM if the owner has the paperwork to prove it?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,821
Likes: 204
From: Lincoln CA
I would think that a "numbers matching" car would be one where the numbers on the engine and the VIN matched. If the numbers don't match, then it's "non-numbers matching". Does it really matter whether the engine was replaced at the factory or at the dealer or at Joe's Machine Shop? The numbers still won't match.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,367
Likes: 59
From: FL
If the CE is installed in the first few months, it may have the same casting number for the block as the original and the date code may precede the build of the car. In which case, you could judge the car in NCRS and only have the hit for no VIN and no assembly code.
If the install was a year or two later, the CN may or may not be right and the date code is most likely AFTER the build of the car. In NCRS judging, you'd take the full hit on the engine.
With today's narrow-minded market, only ORIGINAL engine is worth any money and NUMBERS MATCHING is only worth money to those who have no idea what NM means.
The CE is no way original, so it is NOM. End of discussion on that point.
Now is the CE any good? I would buy one in a second, if the rest of the car was good, as a driver or a personal car. Search Yahoo for CE blocks. I agree with that web page that comes up that this is the only case where Chevy reenters the life of one of its cars after it has left the factory. I think it makes them special. However, no one pays for that specialness.
I would not buy one as an investment or for judging.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 26,545
Likes: 46
From: Huntersville NC
Thank you. If people insist on using this silly term, then use it and live with what you get. If I put a crate engine in my vette and stamp my vin on the crate engine, then as far as I am concerned it is a "numbers matching" engine. If the factory messed up and mixed up 2 engines on the assembly line, and my engine stamp differs from my vin by one number (This has happened), then I do not have a numbers matching car and in fact the factory produced a non-numbers matching car.
NOM stands for, Non, Original, Motor. A CE block is a non-original motor. You can't really call it an original engine, can you? Don't confuse the meangingless term "matching numbers" with "original." I know what original means, that's how the car left the factory. Dealer add-ons are not original. They might be cool, and they might be as old as the car, but they are not..., let's call it factory original.
If you are having a car judged by NCRS it can do very well with a CE block, even if it is NOM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 6
From: www.Z16.org North/West Pennsylvania
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Personally I dont give a damn especially if it`s a UPGRADE engine. A 'Lotta HP'. 
Just dont try to pass it off as something it isn`t.