let them have it! tell the ole insurance co that its uncoverd damage found while repairing
frame problems
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Ocala Fl
frame problems
Hey guys.
looking for some insight for a busted frame. In November, I had the front end of my 75 aligned. 2 hours after I picked it up, I was rear ended and consiquently hit the truck in front of me. Long story short, I finally got the guys insurance company to cut me a check for the damage and took it to the body shop for repair. After several months of them having it, I finally got it back about 3 weeks ago. The cam or caster was obviously off when I picked it up. The wheels "toed out" and the right side turned out while the left tire was fairly straight. I had my girl towed to the place where it was aligned in November since they are familiar with her. I was called the next day and told that the rame was busted. I went to look at it and sure enough, the A arm has been ripped from the frame. The insurance company says they are not going to pay because the wreck would not have done the type of damage that is there and because the metal is shiney so it had to have been done recently. Now as far as I know, the car has not been driven since the accident except to drive it home after the wreck and to take it to the body shop.
Any ideas?
looking for some insight for a busted frame. In November, I had the front end of my 75 aligned. 2 hours after I picked it up, I was rear ended and consiquently hit the truck in front of me. Long story short, I finally got the guys insurance company to cut me a check for the damage and took it to the body shop for repair. After several months of them having it, I finally got it back about 3 weeks ago. The cam or caster was obviously off when I picked it up. The wheels "toed out" and the right side turned out while the left tire was fairly straight. I had my girl towed to the place where it was aligned in November since they are familiar with her. I was called the next day and told that the rame was busted. I went to look at it and sure enough, the A arm has been ripped from the frame. The insurance company says they are not going to pay because the wreck would not have done the type of damage that is there and because the metal is shiney so it had to have been done recently. Now as far as I know, the car has not been driven since the accident except to drive it home after the wreck and to take it to the body shop.
Any ideas?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,883
Likes: 11
From: North Easton Mass
A reproduction frame costs ~$3500 plus the labor to transplant everything onto it. You could probably get the frame repaired but if it was weak enough for the control arm to tear off there might be other problems also.
Rick B.
Rick B.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,669
Likes: 3
From: Kingston Ontario
I can't get over the fact that you picked up your car from a body shop with frame damage?? 
Excuse me, bring the car to a real body shop for a proper assessment!!
I'm totally confused! A qualified body shop would have fixed it before releasing vehicle.
Excuse me, bring the car to a real body shop for a proper assessment!!I'm totally confused! A qualified body shop would have fixed it before releasing vehicle.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
From: Waco TX
I work for an insurance company. My job is managing a team of auto damage appraisers. I've been doing this for over tewenty years. I worked in and managed various body shops prior to to my current job.
Based on my experience I can tell you that damage from a collision in the rear did not likely cause your lower control arm to tear or break loose from the frame. Unless you had a secondary impact with somthing else such as a curb, it's not likely.
Look for tie down damage on the control arm. There are still many "Old School" guys out there that still use lower control arms to tie down the vehicle for a frame pull. That would be a more likely cause.
What would worry me even more is that the shop may have used a cra@ load of tension to pull the damage on your frame which ultimately caused even more damage.
Sometimes it's not the insurance company to blame but rather the shop. I see stuff like this all the time.
Based on my experience I can tell you that damage from a collision in the rear did not likely cause your lower control arm to tear or break loose from the frame. Unless you had a secondary impact with somthing else such as a curb, it's not likely.
Look for tie down damage on the control arm. There are still many "Old School" guys out there that still use lower control arms to tie down the vehicle for a frame pull. That would be a more likely cause.
What would worry me even more is that the shop may have used a cra@ load of tension to pull the damage on your frame which ultimately caused even more damage.
Sometimes it's not the insurance company to blame but rather the shop. I see stuff like this all the time.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,102
Likes: 1
From: Forsyth Illinois
I was heading in the same direction as 4544speed...........w/out seeing the shineyness,it's hard to say,but w/3 months of sitting after the wreck,there would be oxidization,so i would lean t'wards the a-frame was a tie down point on a pull.Where i used to work,we had pods in the shop floor,and a old time portable puller we chained down.A inexperienced,or dumb azz/careless frame guy could've used that point as a tie down for the front end pull.If there's no other damage around it,then a accident isn't very likey to just tear your a-frame at the frame.
You can pick up a 75 frame for 400-800.00 all day long.It's the changing everything that sucks!I'd go talk to the bodyshop owner.He may be standup,and didn't even know one of his guys screwed up,and the tech may not of wanted to tell his boss,"hey.....I'm a dumb azz,and tied down in the wrong place,and just ripped the frame on that customers vett!!!"
You can pick up a 75 frame for 400-800.00 all day long.It's the changing everything that sucks!I'd go talk to the bodyshop owner.He may be standup,and didn't even know one of his guys screwed up,and the tech may not of wanted to tell his boss,"hey.....I'm a dumb azz,and tied down in the wrong place,and just ripped the frame on that customers vett!!!"
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
The lower control arm (A-arm) attachment has ALWAYS been feeble at best.
The lower bracket is held with a few small pocket welds, and the
front attachment point is notorious for thinning from rust.
My verdict is that the arm did pull off from the accident.
However, the situation is likely that it was compromised (but not broken) before.
Hell, people have pulled them off from taking a hard corner or a bump.
It is repairable in many cases ... find a good frame/welding shop.
The body shop should have caught it, included in estimate , and fixed it.
The lower bracket is held with a few small pocket welds, and the
front attachment point is notorious for thinning from rust.
My verdict is that the arm did pull off from the accident.
However, the situation is likely that it was compromised (but not broken) before.
Hell, people have pulled them off from taking a hard corner or a bump.
It is repairable in many cases ... find a good frame/welding shop.
The body shop should have caught it, included in estimate , and fixed it.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Ocala Fl
thanx
Thanks a bunch for all your input, guys.
I never even thought about the body shop guys having to pull on the frame that hard. I'll check into it.
Also, the guys at the shop were to just fix the front and rear bumpers. The insurance adjuster only authorized that work. However, he cam to look at the car originally while I was at work and I'm guessing he never crawled underneath to look at it from that angle.
I never even thought about the body shop guys having to pull on the frame that hard. I'll check into it.
Also, the guys at the shop were to just fix the front and rear bumpers. The insurance adjuster only authorized that work. However, he cam to look at the car originally while I was at work and I'm guessing he never crawled underneath to look at it from that angle.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 845
Likes: 1
From: Columbus Indiana
The lower control arm (A-arm) attachment has ALWAYS been feeble at best.
The lower bracket is held with a few small pocket welds, and the
front attachment point is notorious for thinning from rust.
My verdict is that the arm did pull off from the accident.
However, the situation is likely that it was compromised (but not broken) before.
Hell, people have pulled them off from taking a hard corner or a bump.
It is repairable in many cases ... find a good frame/welding shop.
The body shop should have caught it, included in estimate , and fixed it.
The lower bracket is held with a few small pocket welds, and the
front attachment point is notorious for thinning from rust.
My verdict is that the arm did pull off from the accident.
However, the situation is likely that it was compromised (but not broken) before.
Hell, people have pulled them off from taking a hard corner or a bump.
It is repairable in many cases ... find a good frame/welding shop.
The body shop should have caught it, included in estimate , and fixed it.
Just do a search on front crossmember/control arm/a-frame damage!
I'm amazed at the number of C-3s that have front crossmember issues.
Pics abound (including mine) of severe tearing in the lower a-frame attachment area with C-3s that have never even been in an accident, or like mine, is rust free.
When I repaired mine, I bought a replacment lower panel, and made my own lower brackets out of much heavier stock. I also made and installed the angled support pieces on the back side of the crossmember.
John
Last edited by seventysixvette; Apr 20, 2007 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Still learnin' to spell.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 845
Likes: 1
From: Columbus Indiana
timmijoe, I wish I'd documented the fix a little better. I've got a few blurry pics I'd took just for my own reference. I wish I'd taken some of the bracing I did inside of the crossmember interior with 2" box tube. This pic is the only one I actually took of the crossmember it's self. I'd just got done cleaning it up with a knotted wire brush, before paint.
I researched using a piece of C channel, but it has a large radius/web on the inside that my control arm shafts couldn't seat flat in. I ended up with a piece of 3/16 box steel I cut in half. Then I found a piece of strap steel the same width. I cut both the same length and welded the strap on the backside of the homemade C channel. The angled supports are fabbed out of the same box steel, cut in half again.
The second pic I took test fitting the Jeep power steering box, but it shows the crossmember painted, a-frames all glass beaded, painted with new bushings and ball joints.
If you or any of the others decide to do something like this, I can post pics of the raw materials (I still have some in a corner) and show in a little more detail how I made the angled supports.
John
I researched using a piece of C channel, but it has a large radius/web on the inside that my control arm shafts couldn't seat flat in. I ended up with a piece of 3/16 box steel I cut in half. Then I found a piece of strap steel the same width. I cut both the same length and welded the strap on the backside of the homemade C channel. The angled supports are fabbed out of the same box steel, cut in half again.
The second pic I took test fitting the Jeep power steering box, but it shows the crossmember painted, a-frames all glass beaded, painted with new bushings and ball joints.
If you or any of the others decide to do something like this, I can post pics of the raw materials (I still have some in a corner) and show in a little more detail how I made the angled supports.
John
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 845
Likes: 1
From: Columbus Indiana
BTW Skyrat or timmijoe, here is a link to a thread from early last year on this exact same issue. Some of the pics are so good I bookmarked it.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1313405
It has some good pics of damage, but more importantly one of the fellows has some excellent pics of his front crossmember repair during a frame off.
I figure any info lets skyrat make a more informed decision. This thread helped me decide to repair mine.
John
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1313405
It has some good pics of damage, but more importantly one of the fellows has some excellent pics of his front crossmember repair during a frame off.
I figure any info lets skyrat make a more informed decision. This thread helped me decide to repair mine.
John
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: DEER ISLE ME
WOW ,AMAZING...I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS FORUM....WE ALL can get so much advice...you all (and someday...me!)are better than the original equip.!! you fellas would've become millionares had they let you have the plans in the first place!! nice pics Seventy six, Paul...thanks for the heads up ...I think i'll work them in BEFORE I pull the motor
,AMAZING...I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS FORUM....WE ALL can get so much advice...you all (and someday...me!)are better than the original equip.!! you fellas would've become millionares had they let you have the plans in the first place!! nice pics Seventy six, Paul...thanks for the heads up ...I think i'll work them in BEFORE I pull the motor
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 649
Likes: 10
From: Shelby Twp MI
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Ocala Fl
Seventysix, Paul, Timjoe.
Thanks so much for all your help. The links and the pics will deffinately help me make a much more informed decision. I really don't want to scrap this car. The good thing is that since it's paid for, it costs me nothing for it to sit as long as it takes. Just miss driving it. You know?
Thanks so much for all your help. The links and the pics will deffinately help me make a much more informed decision. I really don't want to scrap this car. The good thing is that since it's paid for, it costs me nothing for it to sit as long as it takes. Just miss driving it. You know?