I just have always loved Corvettes. My love affair with the car has never had anything to do with numbers. I respect both sides of the coin. I'll be the first to admit that my money was not long enough to afford a numbers matching numbers car. I love my first Corvette just as much as if I had spent the additional money to have one that was numbers matching. There are two sides to the coin, but at the end of the day, we are all joined together by our love the the Corvette. Whether you are from the school of numbers matching or the school of customizing, we are all Corvette lovers. Let's not let us issues separate us!!!

 

Yes, I think you are REAL close!

 

OK, I have a numbers matching car with ORIGINAL PAINT. However, it isn't original because it has a cam, headers, dual exhaust, new radio, quartz clock and newer seats.

Someone else has the same car without all those changes. However, it has been repainted.

I can put mine back to original because all the changes were bolt on. I'd like to see him get back to original paint.

Which car is more original?

Which car is worth more?

 

If that engine block and your vin don't match, then you might as well paint the car pink and put a decal of the Uganda country flag on the doors, because it doesn't matter.
It all starts with the block, then goes to the heads and intake and carb then transmission.
On a vette only one rear will fit so it has to be a vette rear.
Original paint gives a car "surviver" status, once repainted, to sad, but you lost %100 original and especially a differnt color.
Thats fine but i don't think you would want to pay 396,375 horse price for a 396 325 horse car would you?

I think it all boils down to, not paying for something that its not.
Until you put it back right its worth nomore than the repaint car

 

The question doesn't really matter (no disrespect intended) because it's two very different types of enthusiasts: those that love the car for what it IS, and those that love it for what it CAN BE.

I see the beauty in a perfectly restored '66 right down to the tires.

I see the beauty in a tired road-racer with cracked 'glass and the 23rd engine that's been between the frame rails.

I see the beauty in a nicely maintained '73 with aftermarket wheels and an aftermarket intake.

I see the beauty in a '69 on stands with a rusty frame and an owner making it better one part at a time.

Buy the 'vette you want. Do with it what you want. It's all good

We are the same, Mcleod - We are brothers!
- Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez (Highlander)

 

Probably the best post ever on the subject.

On the Highlander theme, too often the numbers/modified crowd has been in the "there can be only one" mindset.

 

Yes buy the car you want, but make sure its the car you bought!!!

 

I have an opposing theory:

The majority of the people trying to convince the rest of the people in the hobby that matching numbers really, really matters,
are the people with matching numbers cars.

Both theory's are correct.
People buy what they want and can afford.
Your choice doesn't make the other guy "wrong".

 

I think you are missing my point. Everyone is right here, and which point of view you embrace depends on how you view you car. People do what makes them happy (as they should). I beleive that if matching numbers is important to you, then you should purchase a numbers matching car. If having numbers matching is not that important, then save yourself some money and purchase one that may not be numbers matching

 

Amen!!!!

 

If your talking about market value, then yes.
A #'s matching car is worth more than a non #'s car
A chrome bumper is worth more than a rubber bumper.
A convertible is worth more than a T bar.
Congratulations, you've got more $$$ sitting in the garage than I do.

But now we get down to the heart of the question...
Does it really mean anything that your car is worth more $ than mine?

No.

 

To answer the original post's question, "do numbers matter?" the answer of course is "it depends."

Numbers matter to some people and I belong to that group. I probably wouldn't buy a car with a NOM. Numbers don't matter to some people. Thats fine too. They have the flexibility to buy either kind of car. I didn't pay a premium price for my numbers matching car, so I don't loose sleep at night thinking someone was out there restamping my block. I like originality. Thats why when I repainted it, I kept it the original color. Partly because I don't see many green corvettes out there. The other part was, if I wanted a red car, I would have bought a red car. I've had modified cars, and I've had original cars. I like original cars better. I like preserving some history and not having to remember what year I need to tell the parts counter guy when I buy brake pads or a starter.

As to the arguement that people like camaros or mustangs "better" because you can do whatever with them and still retain value... well they haven't seen the price tag of a classic mustang or camaro in a while. Mustangs and camaros are even crazier than corvette prices in my opinion. And the thing with mustangs and camaros is that originallity can't even be verified. Corvette is one of the few cars out there that numbers matching even can mean ANYTHING. Corvettes and their engines are one of the few models out there that stamped by the car. Mustangs and camaros CAN'T be numbers matching because they were never stamped that way. Any 67 block can be stuck in a 67 mustang or camaro and there's no way to say its not original. (yes, there are trim tags and vin digits that verify a engine size, I'm not talking about making a 6 banger a big block) I'm a ford guy with a deep love for the corvette. When I sold my mustang, I looked at both older mustangs, and corvettes, and the crazy thing is, I found I could by more corvette for my money than I could buy mustang. The vette I found I could buy a convertible, the "base" engine was a 350, and the originality can be verified. On the mustang, finding a convertible was harder, finding a car with a v8, let alone a bigger v8 (like a 351) made the choices fewer and more expensive and then there was NO way to verify that that was even the original engine. I think you get the point.

Like another poster said... to the people it matters to, it matters, and to the people that don't care, it doesn't, and its very rare that anyone will find themselves on the fence.

 

I'm not sure about 1967, but 1968 Camaros definitely had the partial VIN stamped on the block. So yes, you can tell if the engine is original.

 

The problem I see is that the ones wanting original numbers to mean a lot do so at the expensive of the non-original cars. They say only the original are worth anything, the non-original are worthless.

The non-original guys seem to only say the original cars should not be valued so disproportionately and that non-original are far from worthless.

At least from most of my observations.

Do you think any Grand Sport has its original engine? Does it matter? Are they worthless because they don't?

Is the 12 mile '67 L88 worthless because it doesn't have its original engine?

 

I have a matching numbers car and I am going to unmatch the hell out of it....one performance part at a time.

Street Rodders figured this issue out a LONG time ago.

 

I think you missed the point!
Myself,all numbers matching means is a higher price for old technoligy.
I'll take a new crate engine anyday but I want to know its a crate engine.

 

Here is what I think.

Back in ancient history, the '70s, they did mean something but not what most think. In the '70s, a lot of Corvettes had been wrecked, engines changed, hot rodded, modified, raced, blown up, and so on.

Finding one with the matching numbers (original engine) was a sign that it had survived, had probably been treated well by its owner(s) (not drag raced from every traffic light), and was probably a really nice car to have. Kind of like finding the low mile, mint car some grandmother had.

So the matching numbers (original engine) became an indicator for a good car, a babied car, a well-cared-for car, that was desirable for those looking for a nice Corvette and not a street racer. It wasn't just about the engine, but the whole car!


Like most things in life, people come along after the fact, see only the surface, and took it that matching numbers (original engine) was valuable and did not understand that it was an indicator for a good car.


Along came full body off restorations, where hopefully everything is brought back to like-new specifications and condition, and so all the scars, wounds, damage, and such done in the past life have been removed or nullified. So after a full body off restoration, it doesn't matter if Grandma owned the car or Johnny Street Racer owned it, it is like new and the past has no effect.

Like most things in life, people come along after the fact, see only the surface, and did not understand that matching numbers (original engine) was valuable as an indicator for a good car on an unrestored old Corvette.


By the time the '90s rolled around, meaning of matching numbers (original engine) was so convoluted that it was simply a means to get more money and the prices of such Corvettes were going to unbelievable prices then.

Then it crashed.

By the 2000s, the prices were going nuts again, Barret Jackson was in full swing, and the big buzz word of the hobby (business) was still matching numbers (original engine) although by the '90s, most enthusiasts knew that stamping an engine to match was not only possible, it was very common on high dollar restorations since the most desirable cars were the high performance cars that had probably been run ragged in the '60s and '70s and lost the original engine decades ago.

So does it mean anything today?

Something like 88 points in NCRS judging or however many it is.

The difference of a Gold or Silver in Bloomington Gold.

Usually around $10,000 when selling to most buyers, unless it is a '67 big block car. Then it is closer to $40,000 or more.

So can anyone think that someone would NOT restamp an engine at $500 to $1000 when they could make $10,000 to $50,000 because they did so?

 

Matching numbers means different things to different people.

If you already have them you can usualy get better resale bucks. People DO pay for them.

If you do not have them, you might enjoy searching for the odds and ends that make up all those "matching numbers". Lots of people do this as recreation. It is a hobby for them. You probably will not get all of your money back but after all, it IS a hobby.

Some people just create the matching numbers. There is a strong market for this. Suppliers and customers. They pays thier money and they gets what they wanted.

Some people tell the truth, some do not. Some people will know the difference, some will not. Some people will care, some wil not.

We all need to go out to the garage and fix something.

 

The thief I bought my car from swore up and down it was a matching number car. I was skeptical (now sadly I am proven right). While the car was not as described, in a way I am actually relieved it is not. I am free to do with it what I want. Yes it WAS a big block 365hp auto car (at least according to the VIN) Now it is going to be a Merlin having 5speed Manual tranny monster - just for fun.

I think I would have felt bad about doing this to a true matching number find.

 

Seams like it only matters for vettes.
You can take a 69 camaro ,which had 4 times the production #s as the vette , sell it as a (clone) & still get big bucks.