At one time matching numbers mean't that the car still had all of it's original equipment that it came down the assembly line with but anymore who really knows since everyone is looking for an engine that they can clone as the engine for that car. Even the build sheet doesn't mean anything anymore since you can go on ebay and buy a counterfeit build sheet that even has the aged look and gasolene smell like the original. In my opinion the only ones that should be considered as original and numbers match are the ones that you personally know the personal history of that car since it was new. Anything less and you could be buying a very expensive imposter.

 

That is exactly why i would never buy a (numbers) car!!
besides i usually pull the motor and drop in a bigger better one than the factory had then anyway!!
With todays tech. coated headers,intakes,carbs,etc.. your better off with new stuff for both performance and function!!
Just my 2 cents

 

You've just hit the Achelles heal of the collector car hobby. Sadly matching numbers counts for alot. Especially if your taking a small block Vette and making a 427/435 car out of it (or a 340 '70 Barracuda into a Hemi 'Cuda).

As long as the frenzy for original cars exist, there will be people willing to reconstruct them. /:\

 

It matters a great deal, just check the auction results for similar cars NOM and #'s. Sure people fake it, but the real deal will usually have a paperwork trail and documentation that would be close to impossible to duplicate. When there's money involved, you get the low lifes onboard. That just makes it that much more imperative to prove what you've got.

Mike

 

I have a theory.

I think the majority of the people constantly trying to convince the rest of the people in the hobby that matching numbers don't matter anymore, are the people that don't have cars with matching numbers.

Am I close?

 

Or the people that got burned on a numbers car that isnt real are trying to keep the prices high to recoop their blunder??

I just dont see the reason to pay all that extra cash for something i myself dont care about or need to impress others with (that its all factory original numbers etc..??)

 

Yeah I believe all those matching number cars are what they are represented to be
just like I believe every other 30 or 40 year old Vette you see for sale has miles under 100k

 

#'s matching means something to collectors for sure. To me, nope. If I can get a clone that's exactly the same as the real thing except for a couple numbers which have nothing to do with performance or looks, then why not. I don't car if my car is original either, my dream car would be a custom c3.

 

I wonder how the owners of the 3 1969 ZL-1 cars feel about all this? The white one, the yellow one, and the orange one?


And I have seen my very non-matching numbers cars turned into numbers matching, no wait, one claimed "original", by later owners.

When the difference was an original midyear sold for $4500 and an NOM in the same condition sold for $3500-$4000, no one worried about whether the numbers are real or not.

But when an original sells for $100,000 and the NOM is $50,000, you better begin checking those numbers very carefully. There is too much incentive to stamp a set of numbers. And too much profit by doing so.

The perfect example of how well numbers can be done is The Last Sting Ray.

Now the condition of that car was great. And that is how people should base their buying - condition, "stockness", options, and desirable rarity. Nubmers can easily be "restored" like all other parts. Some of that comes into the current buying process. Do you see original late C3s selling for insane money?

 

This is a point I used to bring up long ago. You buy a '67 to '69 L88 for hundreds of thousands of dollars if you can find one.

Yet, you can recreate the same feel and most of the look for well under $50,000. You can do it for less if you ignore all the numbers.

99.9% of the people won't know or care the difference!

Which one rides better? Which one puts a bigger smile on your face when you smash the pedal?

In off-topic, the UAW workers constantly get bashed, yet over in restorationland, these same UAW workers must have been seated at the right hand of God from the reverence given to the work they did 40 years ago, which is only of value if they did it. Anything mortal man of today does is worthless, unless they can somehow fool other mere mortals that the work was actually done by these long-gone UAW workers 40 years ago.

 

I still want to know where the other 4-7 ZL-1 engines shipped to St. Louis ended up.

Nail, meet hammer. I'm building my car to make me happy. It's got quite a few modifications and improvements over stock. More are on the way. I really don't care if they're reversible or not. My goal is to make the car better than when it left St. Louis - which, judging by some of the frame welds and other issues, won't be particularly difficult.

 

hello all , just thought i would throw my 2 cents in here, cmon people, lets get real here, the way i see it ,back in the day these early c3 vettes were daily drivers when gas was cheap , vettes are really status symbols to drive and be proud of to own, in my opinion how many of these vettes TRULY have less than 100,000 miles on them , i say very few , and as far as documentation goes with todays technology you can make a numbers matching car all day long if you got the greenbacks , and for those of you that do have truly numbers matching cars my hats off to you , these cars are 30 to 40 years old guys 100,000 miles i say b/s , they are out there but very few , just my 2 cents , besides # matching or not its still a piece of history that only a few of us still have and cherish

 

for my money there are degrees of numbers matching

-There is the holy grail where every numbered part is correct for the car fully documented, and hard to find as Moby dick
- There is the original power train (or just motor) numbers matching which satisfies the less stringent but still discerning enthusiast and usually is right but can be fraudulent as documentation is limited
- There is NOM but everything else on the car came with it from the plant, less valuable perhaps but fun to own and drive none the less and usually becomes highly personalized
- and lastly there is the "it is what it is" car which is the owners own personal slice of heaven, anything goes and the only documentation is the pile of receipts from fixing it up

Personally, I have an original power train car, no documentation, other than receipts for parts replaced, and I drive it like i stole it, and love every minute of it, is it worth a little more, perhaps or perhaps not as it is a 327 4 speed, But I bought the "green Machine" not for an investment (though it is a liquid asset) but because Danny Kosty had one next door when I was 10 ( 69 350 4 speed, with L88 hood, cragars and side pipes) and I had to have one one day, and now I do ( i drove it to the old neighborhood to show it off last year )

I have bolted on an number of improvements, and restified/ replaced other parts to make it a DD, Some one painted it green (originally corvette bronze), and I may sell it one day and get something else, but i harbor no illusions of what it will be worth, more to one buyer less to another, heck if the price it right you can buy it right now, cause i got my eye on a 68 Charger


Peace


Tim

 

BINGO!!!!!!

 

 

I would like to say that those "under" 100K miles cars do exist.

I purchased my car from the only owner and was given all the inspection/registration POP/winder sticker etc... info from 1972 when she bought it.

It had 45,586 miles on the odometer, and every nut/bolt/hose was original and never touched. Only items that were changed are the spark plugs, oil filter, wiper blades, and exhaust. The spare tire (Uniroyal - no use) was still in place as well as the tape used to hold the lock in place.

So what Im saying is - not all < 100k mile cars are fake.

my 2 cents...........

Bill

 

They're out there because some of us old owners (now retired), refused to give them away decades ago and parked them. Mine is a boring numbers matching '71 LS5 Convertible/Hardtop, with 55,354 miles.
I hope that someone appreciates its originality when I sell it.

 

Totally agree....if you have a NOM in your ride and your happy with it great!! But don't try and tell me my documented #'s matching vette doesn't matter. It matters to me and I'm sure it will matter to the next owner.

 

Truely a treasure indeed, keep it forever

 

Same for NCRS bashers. Wannabes.