What To Do About Rusted Chassis
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 13
From: ar
Here is a link from a company that will convert newer frame to a 63-67 and probably would do a 69 since they are very similar.
http://www.exlinecustomauto.com/Corvette.htm
Jeff
http://www.exlinecustomauto.com/Corvette.htm
Jeff
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
If this was from a dealer and they're not in an exempt state, the FTC Used Car Rule applies. They must have had a Buyer's Guide associated with the car. If the Buyer's Guide "AS IS - NO WARRANTY" was checked then you likely have no legal recourse regardless of any verbal comments regarding condition. You didn't need to sign anything, and contrary to popular belief there's no Federal (although there may be state/local) restrictions on selling a car that's unsafe - that's the buyer's responsibility to determine.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...tos/aut03.shtm
These are the only states that have statutes that override the FTC Used Car Rule. How exactly would you expect someone to be held accountable for a verbal statement of condition?
When the dealer offers a vehicle "as is," the box next to the "As Is - No Warranty" disclosure on the Buyers Guide must be checked. If the box is checked but the dealer promises to repair the vehicle or cancel the sale if you're not satisfied, make sure the promise is written on the Buyers Guide. Otherwise, you may have a hard time getting the dealer to make good on his word. Some states, including Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia and the District of Columbia, don't allow "as is" sales for many used vehicles.
Three states - Louisiana, New Hampshire, and Washington - require different disclosures than those on the Buyers Guide. If the dealer fails to provide proper state disclosures, the sale is not "as is." To find out what disclosures are required for "as is" sales in your state, contact your state Attorney General.
These are the only states that have statutes that override the FTC Used Car Rule. How exactly would you expect someone to be held accountable for a verbal statement of condition?
When the dealer offers a vehicle "as is," the box next to the "As Is - No Warranty" disclosure on the Buyers Guide must be checked. If the box is checked but the dealer promises to repair the vehicle or cancel the sale if you're not satisfied, make sure the promise is written on the Buyers Guide. Otherwise, you may have a hard time getting the dealer to make good on his word. Some states, including Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia and the District of Columbia, don't allow "as is" sales for many used vehicles.
Three states - Louisiana, New Hampshire, and Washington - require different disclosures than those on the Buyers Guide. If the dealer fails to provide proper state disclosures, the sale is not "as is." To find out what disclosures are required for "as is" sales in your state, contact your state Attorney General.
Last edited by billla; Aug 14, 2007 at 07:04 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
I bet the dealer is Napoleon, Ohio
A good, used solid frame is the way to go, but before you do anything, contact the Ohio Atty General
A good, used solid frame is the way to go, but before you do anything, contact the Ohio Atty General
Last edited by GDaina; Aug 14, 2007 at 07:06 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,547
Likes: 12
From: Carbondale Pa.
I feel your pain :/ I spent 3 years looking for a good '69 frame that wasn't also junk. I explored having the frame jigged up and welded - there are a few shops that specialize in this - I talked to the guys at the link below and had high confidence in what they were offering:
http://www.dynamiccorvettes.com/frames.htm
I finally got lucky and found the frame below locally for $800. It's rock-solid. Ain't that the way it works?
http://www.dynamiccorvettes.com/frames.htm
I finally got lucky and found the frame below locally for $800. It's rock-solid. Ain't that the way it works?
. No, really, good score, I guess deals are out there ,,,Peace, Moosie 
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...tos/aut03.shtm
These are the only states that have statutes that override the FTC Used Car Rule. How exactly would you expect someone to be held accountable for a verbal statement of condition?
When the dealer offers a vehicle "as is," the box next to the "As Is - No Warranty" disclosure on the Buyers Guide must be checked. If the box is checked but the dealer promises to repair the vehicle or cancel the sale if you're not satisfied, make sure the promise is written on the Buyers Guide. Otherwise, you may have a hard time getting the dealer to make good on his word. Some states, including Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia and the District of Columbia, don't allow "as is" sales for many used vehicles.
Three states - Louisiana, New Hampshire, and Washington - require different disclosures than those on the Buyers Guide. If the dealer fails to provide proper state disclosures, the sale is not "as is." To find out what disclosures are required for "as is" sales in your state, contact your state Attorney General.
These are the only states that have statutes that override the FTC Used Car Rule. How exactly would you expect someone to be held accountable for a verbal statement of condition?
When the dealer offers a vehicle "as is," the box next to the "As Is - No Warranty" disclosure on the Buyers Guide must be checked. If the box is checked but the dealer promises to repair the vehicle or cancel the sale if you're not satisfied, make sure the promise is written on the Buyers Guide. Otherwise, you may have a hard time getting the dealer to make good on his word. Some states, including Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia and the District of Columbia, don't allow "as is" sales for many used vehicles.
Three states - Louisiana, New Hampshire, and Washington - require different disclosures than those on the Buyers Guide. If the dealer fails to provide proper state disclosures, the sale is not "as is." To find out what disclosures are required for "as is" sales in your state, contact your state Attorney General.
Here's an article from a California lawyer:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...z1d2legal.html
The caveat to an "as is" contract is that it can become invalid if there has been some misrepresentation. But in the absence of fraud, or a misrepresentation, the contract is valid.
http://www.wwind.com/contracts/15.htm
Suppose a salesman says, "This car has had one previous owner, a retired schoolteacher who drove it only to church on Sunday and to her Thursday night bridge game, and it has only 20,000 miles on it." If the salesman knows that he bought it from the local police agency after its having been used by a drug ring to run drugs between Canada and Mexico, and in fact has 220,000 miles on it, there is deception you can sue on. Misrepresentations of facts result in fraud, discussed later in greater detail. They can appear in many ways, in contracts for both new and used goods and in contracts for services. Ads for goods may contain facts that are blatantly not true or merely half-truths. A house painter may grossly overstate his qualifications and experience. You may pay $3,000 cash for a used truck on the implied representation that the seller has title to it when h doesn't. A mortgage lender may take a fee up front from you on the representation that he has the contacts to get you a loan, but then he does nothing. A roofer may get $400 from you for "materials," but never materializes himself. (Unlike promises about the future, these last two examples show a present intention not to perform, an intent to deceive at the time the transaction is entered into.)
Be aware that the law frowns on any kind of deception, and if you are defrauded, you may recover additional damages in your civil case to punish the wrongdoer and to prevent him from repeating his wrongful conduct. Some fraud is criminal, and you have other ways to get your money back. But as long as a seller, professional or not, did not misrepresent facts about an item you bought as is, you've lost if the item turns out to be trash.
Be aware that the law frowns on any kind of deception, and if you are defrauded, you may recover additional damages in your civil case to punish the wrongdoer and to prevent him from repeating his wrongful conduct. Some fraud is criminal, and you have other ways to get your money back. But as long as a seller, professional or not, did not misrepresent facts about an item you bought as is, you've lost if the item turns out to be trash.
Unfortunately, "as is" does mean just that, "as is." It means that the entire risk as to the quality and performance is with the buyer. For a dealer to disclaim all warranties, he must conspicuously disclose that fact in a writing attached directly to the goods. But as is does not disclaim fraud, and if the consumer was lied to, mislead, or not told of a material defect, the as is disclaimer does not shield the dealer.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Here's some Ohio-specific information:
http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/used-car-lemon-law.html
http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/ne...-ohio-6722.pdf
http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/used-car-lemon-law.html
Ohio has a specific law that governs motor vehicle dealers in retail sales and leases. This law makes it illegal for a car dealer to misrepresent practically any aspect of anything that is happening in your transaction, including the vehicle itself or any material aspect of it, the financing terms, the sale terms, whether it’s a sale or a lease, how much you are getting for your trade in vehicle, and more. This law covers used or new vehicle transactions, no matter what kind of motor vehicle is involved. A violation of this law could give you the right to cancel the deal, recover three times your actual damages, or just get $200 even if you are happy with the vehicle and the deal you struck (the idea is to keep the car dealer honest). Plus, this law can make the car dealer pay your attorney fees!
Additionally, a buyer can maintain a fraud claim against a used car dealer even if the vehicle is sold "as is" if the dealer should have known of defects in the vehicle.
Perkins v. Land Rover of Akron, 2003-Ohio-6722
Perkins v. Land Rover of Akron, 2003-Ohio-6722
Last edited by I'm Batman; Aug 15, 2007 at 12:02 AM.
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TheCorvetteBen
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 144
From: Van Alstyne, TX
Send a PM to forum member tracdogg2. He lives in Galand and his entire job is restoring and fixing damage to C3s. He has been helping me on mine and no doubt will be able to help you.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
Fraud statutes are also pretty clear; a contract must be created between the parties. Yes, a verbal statement of condition could be considered a contract - but if there is absolutely nothing written then there is no way to prove a breach. We don't know what was represented here, so it's impossible to say with any certainty. This is why I suggest talking to an attorney to review the paperwork and any specific statements by the dealer.
As an example, you didn't read the Rover v. Perkins case fully - you can't take items out of context of a legal ruling. The outcome of ruling was that he got the item fixed where an express warranty was given as a condition of sale:
As a condition of the sale, Land Rover promised to fix the vehicle's air conditioning in the contract which created an express warranty.
...but not the other material defects (cylinder head, etc.) So, in summary the case you quote supports my position vs. yours
"Basically, the only evidence that Perkins presents that would demonstrate that Land Rover knew or should of known of defects in the vehicle is that it was in the business of selling that type of vehicle and that the vehicle had problems after the purchase. Land Rover points to the "as is" clause in the sales contract to shield itself from Perkins fraud claims. But Perkins has presented nothing showing that Land Rover had a duty to tell him of these defects. Accordingly, Perkins has failed to meet his reciprocal burden of specificity by pointing to facts in the record which demonstrate a genuine issue of fact. The trial court properly granted summary judgment to Land Rover on these claims and Perkins’ arguments to the contrary are meritless."
Last edited by billla; Aug 15, 2007 at 10:57 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
You need to read your own post; virtually all the aspects you note are written - financing terms, condition, etc.
Fraud statutes are also pretty clear; a contract must be created between the parties. Yes, a verbal statement of condition could be considered a contract - but if there is absolutely nothing written then there is no way to prove a breach. We don't know what was represented here, so it's impossible to say with any certainty. This is why I suggest talking to an attorney to review the paperwork and any specific statements by the dealer.
Fraud statutes are also pretty clear; a contract must be created between the parties. Yes, a verbal statement of condition could be considered a contract - but if there is absolutely nothing written then there is no way to prove a breach. We don't know what was represented here, so it's impossible to say with any certainty. This is why I suggest talking to an attorney to review the paperwork and any specific statements by the dealer.
flag here...parol contracts are perfectly viable unless prohibited by the Statute of Frauds or other statutory authority.
As an example, you didn't read the Rover v. Perkins case fully - you can't take items out of context of a legal ruling. The outcome of ruling was that he got the item fixed where an express warranty was given as a condition of sale:
As a condition of the sale, Land Rover promised to fix the vehicle's air conditioning in the contract which created an express warranty.
...but not the other material defects (cylinder head, etc.) So, in summary the case you quote supports my position vs. yours
"Basically, the only evidence that Perkins presents that would demonstrate that Land Rover knew or should of known of defects in the vehicle is that it was in the business of selling that type of vehicle and that the vehicle had problems after the purchase. Land Rover points to the "as is" clause in the sales contract to shield itself from Perkins fraud claims. But Perkins has presented nothing showing that Land Rover had a duty to tell him of these defects. Accordingly, Perkins has failed to meet his reciprocal burden of specificity by pointing to facts in the record which demonstrate a genuine issue of fact. The trial court properly granted summary judgment to Land Rover on these claims and Perkins’ arguments to the contrary are meritless."
As a condition of the sale, Land Rover promised to fix the vehicle's air conditioning in the contract which created an express warranty.
...but not the other material defects (cylinder head, etc.) So, in summary the case you quote supports my position vs. yours
"Basically, the only evidence that Perkins presents that would demonstrate that Land Rover knew or should of known of defects in the vehicle is that it was in the business of selling that type of vehicle and that the vehicle had problems after the purchase. Land Rover points to the "as is" clause in the sales contract to shield itself from Perkins fraud claims. But Perkins has presented nothing showing that Land Rover had a duty to tell him of these defects. Accordingly, Perkins has failed to meet his reciprocal burden of specificity by pointing to facts in the record which demonstrate a genuine issue of fact. The trial court properly granted summary judgment to Land Rover on these claims and Perkins’ arguments to the contrary are meritless."
Last edited by I'm Batman; Aug 15, 2007 at 05:24 PM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
From: Show me a cold beer and I will show you a happy man Maryland
Just want to say that I hope you are able to figure a way to rectify this situation. Hate to hear these stories about people getting the shaft. I dont know how people who conduct buisness like this can sleep at night?? I would worry about shafting the wrong guy who is just gonna find me and "settle" the situation with a blunt object to the head. Good luck with whatever path you take and people like this always get theirs in the end.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
I have to raise the flag here...parol contracts are perfectly viable unless prohibited by the Statute of Frauds or other statutory authority.
None of that does anything negative to what I said - if the dealer made express oral statements regarding the condition of the vehicle, that would constitute fraud. In this case, I think the buyer's best course of action is to discuss the matter in detail with a lawyer who has experience with Ohio fraud law. There might not be enough to state a valid claim. There may well be. The fact that a statement is oral doesn't necessarily mean that it's invalid or unprovable. Any law school Contracts course is absolutely stuffed with cases of oral contracts or oral modifications to written contracts. I don't know that there is a viable case here, but I think it's worth having a lawyer take a closer look.
flag here...parol contracts are perfectly viable unless prohibited by the Statute of Frauds or other statutory authority.None of that does anything negative to what I said - if the dealer made express oral statements regarding the condition of the vehicle, that would constitute fraud. In this case, I think the buyer's best course of action is to discuss the matter in detail with a lawyer who has experience with Ohio fraud law. There might not be enough to state a valid claim. There may well be. The fact that a statement is oral doesn't necessarily mean that it's invalid or unprovable. Any law school Contracts course is absolutely stuffed with cases of oral contracts or oral modifications to written contracts. I don't know that there is a viable case here, but I think it's worth having a lawyer take a closer look.
The statute of frauds does not apply in any case as this is "sale of goods for $500 or more" so a "writing" is required.
Let's get the facts and stage a mock court
Sorry, dude - I dig on this stuff...which makes me one sick guy. But this is boring for everyone else involved We're in complete agreement that an attorney's advice here is required.
Go get the pri(k 
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 18,398
Likes: 0
From: If the world didnt suck, we would all fall off. Troy,Ohio.
Cruise-In VI Veteran
St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07-'08
Realy see what you can do to work this out. Sounds like you payed WAY to MUCH for a rebuildable. (edit, spelling) I would call him and tell him you want what you payed for, dont let him do this to you.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,431
Likes: 298
From: MN-C3, AZ-C7
First have an attorney quote you a price on fighting this. Then weight the dollars againest fixing it. Sure you may win the battle but never collect a cent after a few years of fighting the crook..... Most are well versed in hiding assets etc when sued and are experts at ducking judgements.
JU
JU
