Original Miles?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: Bedford Va.
Original Miles?
I recently sold a car I bought in Texas that a lady bought new and put 97000 plus miles on and serviced regularly. The original front and rear suspension was in good condition and had never been upgraded. Now, I just looked at a 70 LS5 on E-Bay that is supposed to be an original car with 36000 miles and the entire suspension has been rebuilt plus the engine has been overhauled. I see a lot of cars like this and yet it has been my experience that a well cared for car does not need this kind of attention if it is truly a low miles car. Am I on target here or what?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 872
Likes: 3
From: Cortlandt Manor New York
You are right on target. If you buy old Corvettes because they have low milage you are a fool. A 1970 Corvette is 38 years old has had numerous owners and the milage is almost impossible to verify. In 38 years how many times was the milage misrepresented? The oldest trick in the used car business is to misrepresent milage because people believe that if it has low milage it is in good condition. The reason they believe that is because they no nothing about cars. A car with 50,000 miles that has been well maintained and treated right is a better car than a 20,000 mile piece that has been abused.
Older cars have odometers that read 5 digits and when they hit 100K they start all over. In addition the odometers can be turned forward or backward without any telltale signs. That being the case if you rely on milage to make a purchase decision on and old Corvette you wil get burned 9 out of 10 times.
Buying these cars is all about condition. Inspect it and judge it by what you see not what you are told. You are correct with 36K on the clock the suspension should not need replacing and the engine should not need rebuilding.
Older cars have odometers that read 5 digits and when they hit 100K they start all over. In addition the odometers can be turned forward or backward without any telltale signs. That being the case if you rely on milage to make a purchase decision on and old Corvette you wil get burned 9 out of 10 times.
Buying these cars is all about condition. Inspect it and judge it by what you see not what you are told. You are correct with 36K on the clock the suspension should not need replacing and the engine should not need rebuilding.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
I think before i accuse someone of fraud , (fishy?) I would want to know at least 2 or 3 facts about the car or person.
As far as why some cars indicate that many things have been replaced or repaired at much lower miles than the car you purchased, This can possibly be explained in that not all cars are treated the same and cared for the same. well maintained cars that gets mosltly open road or highway miles may have far less wear and tear than a car with 1/2 the miles that gets the S**T drove out of it on a regular basisand poor upkeep.
I also thinks it is very common for people to do extensive restoration work on a car they have purchased so they then know that all major systems are at peak performance.
David
As far as why some cars indicate that many things have been replaced or repaired at much lower miles than the car you purchased, This can possibly be explained in that not all cars are treated the same and cared for the same. well maintained cars that gets mosltly open road or highway miles may have far less wear and tear than a car with 1/2 the miles that gets the S**T drove out of it on a regular basisand poor upkeep.
I also thinks it is very common for people to do extensive restoration work on a car they have purchased so they then know that all major systems are at peak performance.
David
Last edited by dmayhew; Mar 25, 2008 at 01:22 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,623
Likes: 22
From: Boise Idaho
St. Jude Donor '09-'10, '15, '17
Yeah I saw a '77 listed with 66k actual and nearly everything on the car had been rebuilt. Now either this car was the biggest POS that GM ever put out or the miles were bull. I would bet on the latter.
My guess is less than 25% of the cars for sale are actual miles even though they claim it.
My guess is less than 25% of the cars for sale are actual miles even though they claim it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 28
From: Lutz Florida
36,000 miles on the odometer and most likely 136,000 miles on the car. Unless there is verifiable documentation of mileage it is just BS. I agree with you, a car with only 36,000 miles shouldn't be in need of a full suspension and engine rebuild unless it was stored outside in a corn field somewhere for the last 30 years or otherwise seriously neglected. I just rebuilt the front suspension on mine last year, and replaced the original shocks The original engine is still running strong at 118,000 (original) mi.
Maybe I should tell everybody my car only has 18,000 miles on it since that is what the odometer says. Nah, 118,000 mi on a 32 year old car isn't all that bad.
Maybe I should tell everybody my car only has 18,000 miles on it since that is what the odometer says. Nah, 118,000 mi on a 32 year old car isn't all that bad.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 1
From: west babylon new york
i have a 72 that i put back toghter after an 18 year nap when i started checking out things it looked like the frt end was powdercoated from the factory everything just needed to be cleaned ,of coarse the brake and fuel lines and calipers needed to be done i also did the rear trailing arms because i wanted to drive a safe car, p/s 40.000 miles on car it was stored in a garage in virginia
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
i have a 72 that i put back toghter after an 18 year nap when i started checking out things it looked like the frt end was powdercoated from the factory everything just needed to be cleaned ,of coarse the brake and fuel lines and calipers needed to be done i also did the rear trailing arms because i wanted to drive a safe car, p/s 40.000 miles on car it was stored in a garage in virginia
Have a great year enjoying you 72
David
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I agree with the original post. I have always found "original low mileage" cars that have needed frame off restorations and engine rebuilds or replacements puzzling. I suppose it could be argued that if they sat for long periods in a less than ideal environment some restoration of a low mileage car would become necessary. I guess as a buyer you need to really investigate it and decide if the mileage factor is worth the extra $.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
From: macks creek mo
On my 69 with 65,000 miles, any part that has rubber in it has to be replaced, most any rubber part is dry rot, I know the history on the car, so I know it is right, this car sat for 26 years Had to replace gas tank rebuid carb, change oil and prime engine first time I hit key she came to life, any car this old, should have rubber parts replaced--
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 8
From: Illinois
Don't forget a 1970 is 38 years old--alot of things need to be replaced because of the age--as bonjanies said anything rubber. Also I don't know for sure what has been done so I do things to the car to make sure they are good. My 1971 has 80k miles. I have rebuilt the alternator, starter, power steering booster, master cylinder, power steering cylinder, the TA's, shocks, SS brake lines--you get the picture. None of these parts were not working but I didn't know when they would go so I am replacing them--beside I like working on the car.
CF JASOC Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,040
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From: Downtown Annapolis, MD. The Future is where we all have to live. Let's not screw it up.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
How long have you had your '70 LT1, and what mileage did it have when you bought it?
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,738
Likes: 2
From: San diego ca
Original miles? as opposed to? aftermarket miles? 
I agree with the rest here...miles is a poor judge of a vehicles quality...what good are low miles if the car sat for umpteen years and needs a full restoration?
I agree with the rest here...miles is a poor judge of a vehicles quality...what good are low miles if the car sat for umpteen years and needs a full restoration?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,464
Likes: 1,485
From: Little Rock AR
Original steel rear leaf springs can crack a leaf at 40K miles - ask me how I know. I have a fiberglass one now.
Original engines may need an overhaul even at low miles. I had a bad crank in mine that was already reworked at the factory before it left GM (.009" undersize bearings - factory reworked). The crank wore out one rod journal again at less than 40K miles and the engine required an overhaul. Bores and pistons were perfect but one crank journal was egg shaped. Otherwise the engine looked great.
Cruise control transducers will sieze just due to old age and this is common for C3's. When that happens, the miles stop adding up while you keep on driving.
Stuff happens. Condition is more important than miles - even if they are "true".
-Mark.
I have a fiberglass one now.Original engines may need an overhaul even at low miles. I had a bad crank in mine that was already reworked at the factory before it left GM (.009" undersize bearings - factory reworked). The crank wore out one rod journal again at less than 40K miles and the engine required an overhaul. Bores and pistons were perfect but one crank journal was egg shaped. Otherwise the engine looked great.
Cruise control transducers will sieze just due to old age and this is common for C3's. When that happens, the miles stop adding up while you keep on driving.
Stuff happens. Condition is more important than miles - even if they are "true".
-Mark.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Lake Geneva WI
I recently sold a car I bought in Texas that a lady bought new and put 97000 plus miles on and serviced regularly. The original front and rear suspension was in good condition and had never been upgraded. Now, I just looked at a 70 LS5 on E-Bay that is supposed to be an original car with 36000 miles and the entire suspension has been rebuilt plus the engine has been overhauled. I see a lot of cars like this and yet it has been my experience that a well cared for car does not need this kind of attention if it is truly a low miles car. Am I on target here or what?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 176
From: Hillsborough NC
I bought mine with 42K original miles (78), which I verified through two previous owners. Previous posters have it right, rubber rots after time, and that's why I started tearing into mine.
What happened to me was that after seeing how the car was assembled, it became obvious that if I ever was going to correct the surface rust on the frame and other parts, I would have to disassemble everything I did for the suspension yet again, so it just made sense to keep going and do it all once and correct.
Another thing to consider with respect to mileage is the rear end ratio in the car. A car with a 3.70 rear (like mine) will have almost 25% more engine wear for the same mileage than one with a 3.08 rear end due to the higher number of rpms the motor runs at speed.
What happened to me was that after seeing how the car was assembled, it became obvious that if I ever was going to correct the surface rust on the frame and other parts, I would have to disassemble everything I did for the suspension yet again, so it just made sense to keep going and do it all once and correct.
Another thing to consider with respect to mileage is the rear end ratio in the car. A car with a 3.70 rear (like mine) will have almost 25% more engine wear for the same mileage than one with a 3.08 rear end due to the higher number of rpms the motor runs at speed.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
A 1968 with 28086 miles
All most new just a few years old
Bewlieve it or not this is the actual mileage on this Vette.
Heres how and where it sat for 35 years.
The engine was out for a complete blue printed overhaul and was merely stored after finishing. That was because in 73 the first gas crunch appeared when the Jews kicked the Arabs *** for the first time resulting in much higher gas prices. Finally last fall it was installed back in the car after a complete repaint and interior addressing a multitude of different problems, some of which are still unresolved. Just yesterday I hooked the vacuum up and the lights started to open but not close. The wiper door wont close either or will the wipers work. Are they, the wipers, fused?
The tach works,
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ictures096.flv
And it runs great,
As it is today, with the wipers doors still in question.
Bewlieve it or not this is the actual mileage on this Vette.
Heres how and where it sat for 35 years.
The engine was out for a complete blue printed overhaul and was merely stored after finishing. That was because in 73 the first gas crunch appeared when the Jews kicked the Arabs *** for the first time resulting in much higher gas prices. Finally last fall it was installed back in the car after a complete repaint and interior addressing a multitude of different problems, some of which are still unresolved. Just yesterday I hooked the vacuum up and the lights started to open but not close. The wiper door wont close either or will the wipers work. Are they, the wipers, fused?
The tach works,
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ictures096.flv
And it runs great,
As it is today, with the wipers doors still in question.
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 5
From: Sacramento California
All most new just a few years old
Bewlieve it or not this is the actual mileage on this Vette.
Heres how and where it sat for 35 years.
The engine was out for a complete blue printed overhaul and was merely stored after finishing. That was because in 73 the first gas crunch appeared when the Jews kicked the Arabs *** for the first time resulting in much higher gas prices. Finally last fall it was installed back in the car after a complete repaint and interior addressing a multitude of different problems, some of which are still unresolved. Just yesterday I hooked the vacuum up and the lights started to open but not close. The wiper door wont close either or will the wipers work. Are they, the wipers, fused?
The tach works,
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ictures096.flv
And it runs great,
As it is today, with the wipers doors still in question.
Bewlieve it or not this is the actual mileage on this Vette.
Heres how and where it sat for 35 years.
The engine was out for a complete blue printed overhaul and was merely stored after finishing. That was because in 73 the first gas crunch appeared when the Jews kicked the Arabs *** for the first time resulting in much higher gas prices. Finally last fall it was installed back in the car after a complete repaint and interior addressing a multitude of different problems, some of which are still unresolved. Just yesterday I hooked the vacuum up and the lights started to open but not close. The wiper door wont close either or will the wipers work. Are they, the wipers, fused?
The tach works,
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ictures096.flv
And it runs great,
As it is today, with the wipers doors still in question.