i hate to be that guy
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
i hate to be that guy
there are so many oil threads on every single motor vehicle forum.
one thing i noticed after searching for hours on this site was that no one is even trying the mobil 1 4t 10w40 motorcycle oil. it has 1600ppm of ZDDP. thats better than the 1200ppm of their 15w50.
am i being stupid
thanks and please dont flame the new guy too bad for asking oil stuff
one thing i noticed after searching for hours on this site was that no one is even trying the mobil 1 4t 10w40 motorcycle oil. it has 1600ppm of ZDDP. thats better than the 1200ppm of their 15w50.
am i being stupid
thanks and please dont flame the new guy too bad for asking oil stuff
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 8
From: Belmar NJ
Corvette Fever just ran an informative artical on oil and ZDDP with flat tappet cams/lifters. I don't know squat about the oil your looking at, but read the label very carefully. Although the ZDDP number is quite good, there may be other things that might not be for a car engine.
Buying AV Gas comes to mind, sure you get octane but you get a whole bunch of other stuff your engine won't like. /:\
Buying AV Gas comes to mind, sure you get octane but you get a whole bunch of other stuff your engine won't like. /:\
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 7
From: Ontario
It sounds like you may not have heard about the recent changes to your oil. What you have been buying for the past 20 years is different now. It is not sludge or breakdown that we are talking about. The problem is lack of zink which is key to keeping your non-roller cam alive. What you have been buying is different now....lables look the same but what is inside is no longer good enough for our engines with non-roller cams.
Last edited by Retro78; Jul 4, 2008 at 01:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
yeah but if i was going to do that i would just get the comp cams oil additive that they recommend when you break in a cam.
you have to use it for break in but they recommend it at every oil change.
i'll just stick with the mobil 15w50.
you have to use it for break in but they recommend it at every oil change.
i'll just stick with the mobil 15w50.
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Pro
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 542
Likes: 1
From: Mize Mississippi
According to a release from Update on ZDDPlus from June 2008 http://www.naaaccc.ca/oil_additives_.htm Castrol GTX 20w50 still contains zinc. Quote: Now for the latest report:
#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked “Energy Conserving” in the API “Donut” on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all “Diesel” rated oils are acceptable.
#2 Castrol HD 30 is a very good oil for break-in of new motors. This oil has one of the largest concentrations of ZDDP and Moly to conserve our cams and tappets.
#3 Only an unusual Castrol Syntec 20W-50 approaches the levels of protection we need when we look to the better synthetic lubricants. We are attempting to get this oil but will be using Redline 10W-40 or 10W-30 as these are lighter weights for better performance, flow volume, less drag and has the additive package we need. It also states that additives are not good to use. Quote:
At at least three major motorcycle rallies this past year, we have witnessed live demonstrations put on to demonstrate the effectiveness of certain oil additives. The demonstrators would have a bench- mounted engine which they would fill with oil and a prescribed dose of their "miracle additive." After running the engine for a while they would stop it, drain out the oil and start it up again. Instant magic! The engine would run perfectly well for hours on end, seemingly proving the effectiveness of the additive which had supposedly "coated" the inside of the engine so well it didn't even need the oil to run. In one case, we saw this done with an actual motorcycle, which would be rid den around the parking lot after having its oil drained. A pretty convincing demonstration - until you know the facts.
Since some of these demonstrations were conducted using Briggs and Stratton engines, the Briggs and Stratton Company itself decided to run a similar, but somewhat more scientific, experiment. Taking two brand-new, identical engines straight off their assembly line, they set them up for bench-testing. The only difference was that one had the special additive included with its oil and the other did not. Both were operated for 20 hours before being shut down and having the oil drained from them. Then both were started up again and allowed to run for another 20 straight hours. Neither engine seemed to have any problem performing this "minor miracle."
After the second 20-hour run, both engines were completely torn down and inspected by the company's engineers. What they found was that both engines suffered from scored crankpin bearings, but the engine treated with the additive also suffered from heavy cylinder bore damage that was not evident on the untreated engine.
This points out once again the inherent problem with particulate oil additives: They can cause oil starvation. This is particularly true in the area of piston rings, where there is a critical need for adequate oil flow. In practically all of the reports and studies on oil additives, and particularly those involving suspended solids like PTFE, this has been reported as a major area of engine damage.
In addition, recent new evidence has come to light that makes using almost any additive a game of Russian Roulette. Since the additive distributors do not list the ingredients contained within their products, you never know for sure just what you are putting in your engine.
Recent tests have shown that even some of the most inoffensive additives contain products which, though harmless in their initial state, convert to hydrofluoric acid when exposed to the temperatures inside a firing cylinder. This acid is formed as part of the exhaust gases, and though it is instantly expelled from your engine and seems to do it no harm, the gases collect inside your exhaust system and eat away at your mufflers from the inside out. Any additional input on this would be greatly appreciated.......
#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked “Energy Conserving” in the API “Donut” on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all “Diesel” rated oils are acceptable.
#2 Castrol HD 30 is a very good oil for break-in of new motors. This oil has one of the largest concentrations of ZDDP and Moly to conserve our cams and tappets.
#3 Only an unusual Castrol Syntec 20W-50 approaches the levels of protection we need when we look to the better synthetic lubricants. We are attempting to get this oil but will be using Redline 10W-40 or 10W-30 as these are lighter weights for better performance, flow volume, less drag and has the additive package we need. It also states that additives are not good to use. Quote:
At at least three major motorcycle rallies this past year, we have witnessed live demonstrations put on to demonstrate the effectiveness of certain oil additives. The demonstrators would have a bench- mounted engine which they would fill with oil and a prescribed dose of their "miracle additive." After running the engine for a while they would stop it, drain out the oil and start it up again. Instant magic! The engine would run perfectly well for hours on end, seemingly proving the effectiveness of the additive which had supposedly "coated" the inside of the engine so well it didn't even need the oil to run. In one case, we saw this done with an actual motorcycle, which would be rid den around the parking lot after having its oil drained. A pretty convincing demonstration - until you know the facts.
Since some of these demonstrations were conducted using Briggs and Stratton engines, the Briggs and Stratton Company itself decided to run a similar, but somewhat more scientific, experiment. Taking two brand-new, identical engines straight off their assembly line, they set them up for bench-testing. The only difference was that one had the special additive included with its oil and the other did not. Both were operated for 20 hours before being shut down and having the oil drained from them. Then both were started up again and allowed to run for another 20 straight hours. Neither engine seemed to have any problem performing this "minor miracle."
After the second 20-hour run, both engines were completely torn down and inspected by the company's engineers. What they found was that both engines suffered from scored crankpin bearings, but the engine treated with the additive also suffered from heavy cylinder bore damage that was not evident on the untreated engine.
This points out once again the inherent problem with particulate oil additives: They can cause oil starvation. This is particularly true in the area of piston rings, where there is a critical need for adequate oil flow. In practically all of the reports and studies on oil additives, and particularly those involving suspended solids like PTFE, this has been reported as a major area of engine damage.
In addition, recent new evidence has come to light that makes using almost any additive a game of Russian Roulette. Since the additive distributors do not list the ingredients contained within their products, you never know for sure just what you are putting in your engine.
Recent tests have shown that even some of the most inoffensive additives contain products which, though harmless in their initial state, convert to hydrofluoric acid when exposed to the temperatures inside a firing cylinder. This acid is formed as part of the exhaust gases, and though it is instantly expelled from your engine and seems to do it no harm, the gases collect inside your exhaust system and eat away at your mufflers from the inside out. Any additional input on this would be greatly appreciated.......
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,486
Likes: 71
From: Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin
I was just given a couple cases of oil that had been around for years. Still the old style tin cans. There is a case of AMOCO 10-40 API SE SF and also a case of AMOCO 10-30 API SE SF/CC . They do say "Energy Conserving", but I would bet these cans are 10 years old and from what I am reading, " The API grade of oil prior to this was “SF” and had ZDDP concentrations in excess of 0.15%. "
Can anyone tell me if these are OK for a flat tappet motor? I'm not sure "Energy Conserving" has anything to do with the Zinc level.
Here is what I found on the ratings:
SE – 1972 Gasoline Engine Warranty Maintenance Service – OBSOLETE
SF – 1980 Gasoline Engine Warranty Maintenance Service – OBSOLETE
http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...roducts_id=767
Can anyone tell me if these are OK for a flat tappet motor? I'm not sure "Energy Conserving" has anything to do with the Zinc level.
Here is what I found on the ratings:
SE – 1972 Gasoline Engine Warranty Maintenance Service – OBSOLETE
SF – 1980 Gasoline Engine Warranty Maintenance Service – OBSOLETE
http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...roducts_id=767
Last edited by RobRace10; Jul 7, 2008 at 02:40 PM.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 681
Likes: 11
From: Carson City MI
Pennzoil High Mileage still has the zinc in it. I believe that other brands of High Mileage oils also have zinc. These can be bought off the shelf at Walmart. If it doesn't have the emblem on it that looks like a "gear" it contains the zinc.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 2
From: Melrose Florida
Flame away:
I am a degreed mechanical engineer, and have owned dozens of vehicles with internal combustion engines over the past 30 or so years.
MOTOR OIL IS MOTOR OIL
As long as you keep it cool and clean, the cheapest stuff (or even old stuff) will serve the sole purpose:lubrication.
Steve
I am a degreed mechanical engineer, and have owned dozens of vehicles with internal combustion engines over the past 30 or so years.
MOTOR OIL IS MOTOR OIL
As long as you keep it cool and clean, the cheapest stuff (or even old stuff) will serve the sole purpose:lubrication.
Steve
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,262
Likes: 283
From: I'd like to propose a toast... to internal combustion and wind in the face.
Flame away:
I am a degreed mechanical engineer, and have owned dozens of vehicles with internal combustion engines over the past 30 or so years.
MOTOR OIL IS MOTOR OIL
As long as you keep it cool and clean, the cheapest stuff (or even old stuff) will serve the sole purpose:lubrication.
Steve
I am a degreed mechanical engineer, and have owned dozens of vehicles with internal combustion engines over the past 30 or so years.
MOTOR OIL IS MOTOR OIL
As long as you keep it cool and clean, the cheapest stuff (or even old stuff) will serve the sole purpose:lubrication.
Steve
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128203
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Not true at all. Motor oil has changed a lot in the last couple of years due to EPA restrictions. There has been a lot of additives that have been taken out or severly reduced. There has been a tremendous amount of research on this even from the cam manufacters saying that the oil has lost some of the properties that it used to have. Many a flat tappet cam has been lost due to less zinc in the oil. A standard cam with low lift and weak springs probably won't make any difference. When you go up in spring pressure the oil gets wiped off the lobe and you have cam failure. Being an engineer as you are do some research on this and you should find oil has changed a lot in the last years.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
there are so many oil threads on every single motor vehicle forum.
one thing i noticed after searching for hours on this site was that no one is even trying the mobil 1 4t 10w40 motorcycle oil. it has 1600ppm of ZDDP. thats better than the 1200ppm of their 15w50.
am i being stupid
thanks and please dont flame the new guy too bad for asking oil stuff
one thing i noticed after searching for hours on this site was that no one is even trying the mobil 1 4t 10w40 motorcycle oil. it has 1600ppm of ZDDP. thats better than the 1200ppm of their 15w50.
am i being stupid
thanks and please dont flame the new guy too bad for asking oil stuff
I used to use Golden Sprctro in my bikes, a petroleum/synthetic blend. I'm sure it would be fine in a Corvette, but I am using Mobil 1 at this time, with Comp Cams break in additive. So far with my fairly mild cam and valve springs, all seems well.
Cheers,
Pete
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
From: Lake Arrowhead - Georgia > 72 Base Coupe & 74 BB Roadster
Me too......I ran 20/50 Havoline or Castrol for years.
Since the Zinc debate, I just switched to Rotella T in my older engines.
I keep a couple bottles of GM EOS on the shelf. I add 8 ounces per oil change. Just makes me feel good.
Does anyone know if my 2001 4.7 V8 Dakota has a roller cam?
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
From: N.Y
Flame away:
I am a degreed mechanical engineer, and have owned dozens of vehicles with internal combustion engines over the past 30 or so years.
MOTOR OIL IS MOTOR OIL
As long as you keep it cool and clean, the cheapest stuff (or even old stuff) will serve the sole purpose:lubrication.
Steve
I am a degreed mechanical engineer, and have owned dozens of vehicles with internal combustion engines over the past 30 or so years.
MOTOR OIL IS MOTOR OIL
As long as you keep it cool and clean, the cheapest stuff (or even old stuff) will serve the sole purpose:lubrication.
Steve
