lately i have seen comments about restamping engine blocks,i just thought a few NCRS guys would enlighten me as to why,everything from spark plug wires , radiators , distributor tags, glass. you name the part that can be reproduced with any date you please is fine. but restamping an engine block is somehow forgery or countefitting. i don't quite understand the difference why one is OK and not the other.

 

I believe you'll find that the NCRS looks at the pad surface and stamped information to determine deviation from typical factory appearance. They do not try to determine whether the engine that's being judged is in fact the engine that was in the car when it left the factory. Along with needing the proper casting number and date, if the pad surface and stamped information appears to be typical of factory production the car gets the points. The Mechanical Judges use the same criteria for the pad as the Exterior Judges use for paint... appears to be typical of factory production.
Counterfit engines and forgeries involve putting an engine in a car that didn't have an engine of that configuration when it left the factory. For example making a 70, 350/300 car into an LT-1 car.
Regards,
Alan

 

This one is real simple- fitting replacement parts (any part, not just the engine) is an act of restoration.

Trying to pass these same parts off as the original-installed-by-the-factory is forgery.

See? Told you it was simple.

Another example- the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was restored in the 80s and 90s. It's not the original anymore but nobody is trying to pass it off as such. No confusion.

NCRS Judging does not attempt to determine if the engine or any other part of the car is the authentic original. Lots of people don't understand the judging rules and end up making it complicated.

 

You make a good point. Most parts that are reproduced and dated do not add a great deal of value to a car. They enhance the restoration and probably enhance the resale price to a degree. Knowledgable buyers will know that the dated spark plug wires on a 70K mile engine in a 40 year old car are not original they are there to enhance the restoration not to decieve.

Most engine restamps are done to decieve and significantly enhance the value of the car. That is the main reason why the are significantly more Big Block cars today than GM ever manufactured. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the addition of a big block that is stamped to look like the original engine can add thousands to the value of a car. Some peole believe that restamping an engine to make it numbers matching is OK and is part of the art of restoration. I disagree and offer this. I have read thousands of for sale ads for Corvettes and I do not recall ever reading an ad that stated "engine pad restamped so it is now numbers matching". Every ad says "numbers matching" and it infers original drive train to most buyers. If it not the original drive train it is a counterfeit made to decieve an unsuspecting buyer in most cases.

 

If it were as simple as getting a block restamped for personal use for judging by NCRS for points, well that's one thing. It's your car and you can do with it as you want. However if you sell it and pass that info along with good intentions...who's to say the next person selling the car will be honest and freely give that data to his next buyer so he receives top dollar for a numbers matching car. IMHO I don't think it should be done to protect those that remain numbers matching. The worst would be if you're doing it as a business and misleading the general population who are buying their first Corvettes without much information on what to look for. That would be forgery.

Not sure if this relates...but how many Impala and Chevelle SS's were produced and how many do you see and advertised as factory original SS's? The seller won't freely tell until asked or the buyer is educated and knows what he's looking at.

 

My judging guide reads:
Judges should become familiar with the factory variations in size and fonts used on these stamps, and they should also become familiar with correct broach marks. Tonawanda is known to have salvaged cylinder cases from failed engine assemblies and re-stamped the cases. St. louis ground and re-stamped serial number identification. Such cases are to be closely scrutinized to determine whether the change was made at the factory or later. Any doubts about engine stamps must be referred to the team leader and/or cheif judge.

 

Yes that's what it says- looking for signs that it is either typical factory production. Or not, just like any other part of the car. Pads are different only in the sense that they were not 'invisibly' repaired like runs in the paint. Remnants from a screw up on the line may still be there half a century later.

Because a 'false call' may induce heart attack on the part of the car's owner, the chief judge or delegate is called in to evaluate questionable/unusual cases.

Stamp pads are NOT a show stopper during NCRS judging. You can easily lose more points by having a few burnt out light bulbs or a non cooperative cigarette lighter.

 

thanks for the replies, i think its what i have suspected all along.... restoration OK.....deception not OK.