Original '69 BB 3963512 Block--Value???
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Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: No longer in Heaven
Original '69 BB 3963512 Block--Value???
Gentlemen, I have a 3963512 block, cast date E 23 9 (May 23, 1969) which has stamping of TO527LR (May 27 build date, 427/435 iron heads, manual trans), and NO VIN derivative.
I think it may have been a warranty engine. I pulled it out of my 1969 427/435 (build date of September, 1968), it worked great, no sleves or welds, etc.
What do you think it is worth to a restorer?
I think it may have been a warranty engine. I pulled it out of my 1969 427/435 (build date of September, 1968), it worked great, no sleves or welds, etc.
What do you think it is worth to a restorer?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,669
Likes: 3
From: Kingston Ontario
Short answer! Whatever he wants to pay.
The block will have no increased value since it can't be documented without the VIN stamp; being installed in the matching original vehicle. The only thing that helps its value is if you have a buyer looking for a specific dated engine which corresponds to yours.
The block will have no increased value since it can't be documented without the VIN stamp; being installed in the matching original vehicle. The only thing that helps its value is if you have a buyer looking for a specific dated engine which corresponds to yours.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 561
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From: No longer in Heaven
Short answer! Whatever he wants to pay.
The block will have no increased value since it can't be documented without the VIN stamp; being installed in the matching original vehicle. The only thing that helps its value is if you have a buyer looking for a specific dated engine which corresponds to yours.
The block will have no increased value since it can't be documented without the VIN stamp; being installed in the matching original vehicle. The only thing that helps its value is if you have a buyer looking for a specific dated engine which corresponds to yours.
Crane's and Tracy Performance sell mid-year and '68-'69 dated BBs for a pretty penny (I know, I bought one for my resto). EBay has completed auctions in the $2,500-$4,000 for rare blocks.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
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From: Crossville TN
It's only valuable to someone willing to re-stamp a 'bogus' VIN number on that blank block. And, basically, someone willing to do that can gin-up an original looking block with 'bogus' numbers on about any appropriate block. Anybody can 'forge' a block if they want to... As mentioned above, stick it on eBay and see what you get.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,447
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From: Syracuse NY
It's only valuable to someone willing to re-stamp a 'bogus' VIN number on that blank block. And, basically, someone willing to do that can gin-up an original looking block with 'bogus' numbers on about any appropriate block. Anybody can 'forge' a block if they want to... As mentioned above, stick it on eBay and see what you get.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: In limbo
St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
It's only valuable to someone willing to re-stamp a 'bogus' VIN number on that blank block. And, basically, someone willing to do that can gin-up an original looking block with 'bogus' numbers on about any appropriate block. Anybody can 'forge' a block if they want to... As mentioned above, stick it on eBay and see what you get.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: No longer in Heaven
May not be that simple. This block is dated May when the plant was on strike and not in production. Engines for the cars on the line at the time the strike began would have been dated prior to the strike and would have been on hand at St. Louis ready to be installed had production continued. Someone wanting to use this block would have to confirm that GM continued to take orders for new Corvettes during the strike and continued to send orders for engines to Tonawanda through out the period.
There were approximately 1,000 427/435s (extrapolating from total production) built between June and the end of November and this block is appropriate for that production period.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
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From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
May not be that simple. This block is dated May when the plant was on strike and not in production. Engines for the cars on the line at the time the strike began would have been dated prior to the strike and would have been on hand at St. Louis ready to be installed had production continued. Someone wanting to use this block would have to confirm that GM continued to take orders for new Corvettes during the strike and continued to send orders for engines to Tonawanda through out the period.
The dealer, being a good guy, found my 68 at Roger Penske Chevrolet in Philly...was an 8 hour trip from Cleve to Philly....
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
...Tonawanda foundry still pumped out blocks in May 1969, while the assembly plant in St. Louis...was on strike....this block would be appropriate...for any 427/435 Corvette built in June through November, because NCRS allows up to a 6 month window between cast date and car build date...
The question remains: what's this block worth?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
even though it is stamped LR, i remains to be seen regarding broach marks as well as proof it's a 4 bolt... the 512 block was used in the big chevys and trucks also..
also, sure it may only get a 25 point deduction when ncrs judged, but is that the point?.. I would not buy a car and spend original engine money on a car without a VIN Derivative stamped and I would have it clarified by someone alot more knowledgable than me, by someone that can spot all but the best of the restamps.
which bring up another question... why did you take out a LR stamped 435 out of a 69 vette and want to sell the engine in the open market?
also, sure it may only get a 25 point deduction when ncrs judged, but is that the point?.. I would not buy a car and spend original engine money on a car without a VIN Derivative stamped and I would have it clarified by someone alot more knowledgable than me, by someone that can spot all but the best of the restamps.
which bring up another question... why did you take out a LR stamped 435 out of a 69 vette and want to sell the engine in the open market?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
also remember that if you put it on ebay, then someone will have to pay around 400 to ship it, that lowers the max price one would be willing to pay.. and less you will get... it is hardly profitable selling something like that due to the extreme shipping cast..
if it includes the internals, manifolds, with heads, maybe 2000$..
if it includes the internals, manifolds, with heads, maybe 2000$..
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,438
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From: Melrose Florida
It would probably judge well w/o a VIN derivative, and it is MUCH easier to stamp one set of numbers than two.
I see NOTHING wrong with the OP trying to sell the block as-is for whatever the market will bear. Anyone buying a C3 being represented as a L71 should rely on much more than the engine assembly code stamp or pay accordingly.
Interesting dates for this story: My 427/435 block was cast March 10, '69, pad code T0325LX (Tonawanda March 25 427/435 iron head TH-400), but the trim tag date is June 23, '69.
Your block would be ideal for a July or later car, would serve for a June car. Thanks for sharing and asking the question, I enjoy the type of discussion your question has fostered.
Steve
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Melrose Florida
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: No longer in Heaven
Assuming that there are "typical" broach marks all the way across the pad, and it never had a VIN derivative, and the block is sound, I'd say it is worth somewhere between $2000 and $4000 for the raw block.
It would probably judge well w/o a VIN derivative, and it is MUCH easier to stamp one set of numbers than two.
I see NOTHING wrong with the OP trying to sell the block as-is for whatever the market will bear. Anyone buying a C3 being represented as a L71 should rely on much more than the engine assembly code stamp or pay accordingly.
Interesting dates for this story: My 427/435 block was cast March 10, '69, pad code T0325LX (Tonawanda March 25 427/435 iron head TH-400), but the trim tag date is June 23, '69.
Your block would be ideal for a July or later car, would serve for a June car. Thanks for sharing and asking the question, I enjoy the type of discussion your question has fostered.
Steve
It would probably judge well w/o a VIN derivative, and it is MUCH easier to stamp one set of numbers than two.
I see NOTHING wrong with the OP trying to sell the block as-is for whatever the market will bear. Anyone buying a C3 being represented as a L71 should rely on much more than the engine assembly code stamp or pay accordingly.
Interesting dates for this story: My 427/435 block was cast March 10, '69, pad code T0325LX (Tonawanda March 25 427/435 iron head TH-400), but the trim tag date is June 23, '69.
Your block would be ideal for a July or later car, would serve for a June car. Thanks for sharing and asking the question, I enjoy the type of discussion your question has fostered.
Steve
Thanks Steve:
I agree with you. Yours works well; it was cast and built in a short time frame in March, but due to the strike, it probably sat on the floor of St. Louis during the strike and was put in one of the June cars after the stike ended.
While it is impossible to determine the exact origin of my block, the casting dates are very, very clear (visually), and a cast date of May 23 and a build date of May 27 makes sense (engine assembly took place adjacent to Tonawanda foundry, but they needed to be shipped via rail to St. Louis) for a car with a build date of mid June-November.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 2
From: Melrose Florida
Mine has a "grease pencil" LX on the back of the block, maybe yours has some remnant of the LR as well.
Good luck with the sale.
Steve
Good luck with the sale.
Steve
Thanks Steve:
I agree with you. Yours works well; it was cast and built in a short time frame in March, but due to the strike, it probably sat on the floor of St. Louis during the strike and was put in one of the June cars after the stike ended.
While it is impossible to determine the exact origin of my block, the casting dates are very, very clear (visually), and a cast date of May 23 and a build date of May 27 makes sense (engine assembly took place adjacent to Tonawanda foundry, but they needed to be shipped via rail to St. Louis) for a car with a build date of mid June-November.
I agree with you. Yours works well; it was cast and built in a short time frame in March, but due to the strike, it probably sat on the floor of St. Louis during the strike and was put in one of the June cars after the stike ended.
While it is impossible to determine the exact origin of my block, the casting dates are very, very clear (visually), and a cast date of May 23 and a build date of May 27 makes sense (engine assembly took place adjacent to Tonawanda foundry, but they needed to be shipped via rail to St. Louis) for a car with a build date of mid June-November.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,482
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
