C3 General General C3 Corvette Discussion not covered in Tech
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

GM Ditches High-Performance Unit

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 12:10 AM
  #21  
Jeff_Keryk's Avatar
Jeff_Keryk
Drifting
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 38
From: Los Gatos CA
Default

I guess the union worker is responsible for all the mistakes GM management has made.
I guess the union worker is responsible for the Pontiac Aztec.
I guess the union worker decided to built the Escalade instead of the Prius (or Civic).
Car companies are in the business of selling cars.
To sell cars, you need to build cars that the consumer wants.
Take a business course.
The 1st thing they teach you is management is responsible for the decisions that determine the success or failure of a company.
I want GM to succeed, but where is the plan to get back to profitability?
The unions have gone too far, but to blame the worker is scapegoating.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 12:27 AM
  #22  
Ed Campbell's Avatar
Ed Campbell
Racer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
From: Anaheim California
Default

Just got my latest Auto Week Magazine and Ford is coming out this summer with a Taurus SHO with a twin turbo charged V6 with AWD and 365hp which gets 25mpg on the highway. I think GM is making a big but probably necessary mistake because of government pressure in dropping their High Performance Department. The SHO will sticker for $37995 and option 123 for $995 will get the track ready equippeds with bigger rims, brakes, suspension and performance gear ratio in the rear. I don't care what Gore says people still want high performance with their cars and modern technology can provide it and still be responsible. There will still be enough Prius' and Volts for those who choose to have one too. GM has a history of dropping some development and cars just when they got real successful. Ed
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 07:58 AM
  #23  
killain's Avatar
killain
Race Director
Supporting Lifetime Gold
Veteran: Navy
St. Jude 20 Year Donor
25 Year Member
Top Answer: 1
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 11,117
Likes: 671
From: SE Pennsylvania
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Oldtimer
Default

I'll say it once more, High performance will always have a market. The US auto industry is in trouble, BUT IT IS NOT DONE FOR ! There is going to be a period of scaling back, but they will survive and it will be done with the company executive and the UAW member working together and producing a saleable vehicle up for sale and it will sell. Once the companies are again stable, they will be able to expand their departments to include 'High Performance' The Cadillac CTS-V, the Pontiac G8 and the Corvette excellant examples of that. And as much as I dislike the tactics of the UAW, the union workers are not responsible for the Losers that have sprung from the GM buildings. It all starts with John Wagoner, and trickles down from there. But the US auto industry IS NOT dead.

Last edited by killain; Feb 21, 2009 at 08:06 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 08:16 AM
  #24  
parkerracing's Avatar
parkerracing
Safety Car
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 8
From: Belmar NJ
Default

The Government wants GM to build golf carts and nothing more. And if they want the taxpayers money (Well...not exactly the taxpayers money, but the great grand children of the taxpayers money) that's what they're going to have to agree to. I laugh at all this meddling by the government with the auto industry. Where was all the "oversite" when they were giving away 50 times MORE to the banks? We need one nucular bomb in DC when everybodies in town and start over. /:\
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 10:59 AM
  #25  
terrible_buddhist's Avatar
terrible_buddhist
Instructor
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Jeff_Keryk
I guess the union worker is responsible for all the mistakes GM management has made.
I guess the union worker is responsible for the Pontiac Aztec.
I guess the union worker decided to built the Escalade instead of the Prius (or Civic).
Car companies are in the business of selling cars.
To sell cars, you need to build cars that the consumer wants.
Take a business course.
The 1st thing they teach you is management is responsible for the decisions that determine the success or failure of a company.
I want GM to succeed, but where is the plan to get back to profitability?
The unions have gone too far, but to blame the worker is scapegoating.
I think while recommending others to take business courses, you may want to take a history one.

The fact is, if you do a search on the googles you will find that before GM went hog wild on SUVs, they were in a similar situation. Running out of money, union labor costs that helped keep them from being competitive, legacy costs, etc. It was actually the SUV craze that kept the whole thing afloat for a while by providing vehicles that made enough profit to feed the pig.

GM could be faulted for making the deals with the union, but the alternative isn't pretty...look up how much cash GM burnt through on the last strike.

Lets face it...the auto bailout...that was nothing more than a thank you check by the administration to the unions for getting them elected.

While you are taking your history class, why don't you look into comparative US labor costs for building cars and see why GM lacks the R&D resources that much smaller companies like Toyota and Honda have.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 11:30 AM
  #26  
Jeff_Keryk's Avatar
Jeff_Keryk
Drifting
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 38
From: Los Gatos CA
Default

History class - I like your thinking. Here's what happened:I was raised in my Dad's 59 Parkwood and then 63 wagons. Great cars! We drove all over America. The 1st market the imports targeted was the small car market. The small Japanese cars offered quality and affordibility (the early cars were throw-away cars, but they got better). GM didn't care because margins were good from midsize cars, trucks and luxury cars. So they let the small car market go. Well, Camry and Accord came in. Satisfied Carolla and Civic buyers gave the midsize a try. GM then lost the midsize market but didn't care because they had trucks and luxury vechcles that were high margin product. So they let the midsize market go. Well, Acura and Lexus came in. Caddys, Lincolns and Mercedes lost market share. All that was left was trucks. Gas prices went from $1.35 gallon in 2000 to $4.50 last year. That, my friend, is history. If you graph the import car introduction vs. market share over time, this is clear. And waht is happening now? Watch the Koreans. They are formidible competitors. Forecasters say that little Cheri(?) just might start this thing all over again. GM is in the business of selling cars. Not caring about market share is crazy but they did it for the sake of short term profits.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 08:18 PM
  #27  
Douglas Mariani's Avatar
Douglas Mariani
GM Cert Corvette Tech
15 Year Member
Pro Mechanic
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 585
From: Anaheim Hills California
Default

Originally Posted by Jeff_Keryk
I guess the union worker is responsible for all the mistakes GM management has made.
I guess the union worker is responsible for the Pontiac Aztec.
I guess the union worker decided to built the Escalade instead of the Prius (or Civic).
Car companies are in the business of selling cars.
To sell cars, you need to build cars that the consumer wants.
Take a business course.
The 1st thing they teach you is management is responsible for the decisions that determine the success or failure of a company.
I want GM to succeed, but where is the plan to get back to profitability?
The unions have gone too far, but to blame the worker is scapegoating.
All there doing is passing the blame
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 08:34 PM
  #28  
turbojet's Avatar
turbojet
Burning Brakes
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 809
Likes: 8
From: brewster NY
Default

Originally Posted by Jeff_Keryk
History class - I like your thinking. Here's what happened:I was raised in my Dad's 59 Parkwood and then 63 wagons. Great cars! We drove all over America. The 1st market the imports targeted was the small car market. The small Japanese cars offered quality and affordibility (the early cars were throw-away cars, but they got better). GM didn't care because margins were good from midsize cars, trucks and luxury cars. So they let the small car market go. Well, Camry and Accord came in. Satisfied Carolla and Civic buyers gave the midsize a try. GM then lost the midsize market but didn't care because they had trucks and luxury vechcles that were high margin product. So they let the midsize market go. Well, Acura and Lexus came in. Caddys, Lincolns and Mercedes lost market share. All that was left was trucks. Gas prices went from $1.35 gallon in 2000 to $4.50 last year. That, my friend, is history. If you graph the import car introduction vs. market share over time, this is clear. And waht is happening now? Watch the Koreans. They are formidible competitors. Forecasters say that little Cheri(?) just might start this thing all over again. GM is in the business of selling cars. Not caring about market share is crazy but they did it for the sake of short term profits.
You have nailed it on the head. They have to get the young
drivers in America interested in driving small cool cars. This way when
they get jobs(good luck) they buy mid size cars and when they retire
to florida they buy caddy's. Good Luck it's going to take awhile.
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-1

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-3

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
story-4

Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!

 Brett Foote
story-7

Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-8

10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

 Michael S. Palmer
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 08:39 PM
  #29  
Glass Act's Avatar
Glass Act
Melting Slicks
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,545
Likes: 3
From: 406ci SB, AFR 180 Heads - 490 HP @5,600 RPM 529 lb-ft @ 4,100 RPM
Default

Could care less if they closed this division, I never plan on buying a new high HP car, I'll build one my way. The days of factory high HP cars is comming to an end anyway, remember the 80's anyone.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 09:01 PM
  #30  
Jeff_Keryk's Avatar
Jeff_Keryk
Drifting
20 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 38
From: Los Gatos CA
Default

To me it is very simple. GM needs to embrace change (take advantage of it) not fight it. We put a man on the moon in 1969. Why can't we build a car (cars) for the masses? 30 plus mpg, able to go 300K reliably and paint that doesn't go to blazes in a couple of years. And is fun to drive. It could be the #1 selling car in the world. Studies say our workers are the most productive in the world. I say stop crying, stop blaming the workers and get to work. Go for it. I love America and will never say die.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2009 | 11:02 PM
  #31  
milo30's Avatar
milo30
Drifting
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 4
From: Arlington texas
Default

Look at GMs latest...the ZR1. How much money did they invest in man hours, equipment, trial and error to come up with that. Sure it's a great car but how many of those are they going to sell a year? It's not really like they were gaining technology to use on other cars to make them more efficient. It was basically someones pet project that they threw money away with. Their management might as well go run for office in Washington, we like voting in idiots.

It's going to be like the late 70s and 80's all over again.
Reply




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:58 AM.

story-0
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

Slideshow: How to Protect A Convertible Top: 10 DOs & DON'Ts

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-03 00:00:00


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-2
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-3
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE
story-4
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)

Slideshow: Ranking the top 10 Corvette engines by torque output.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 11:58:09


VIEW MORE
story-5
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!

Slideshow: A Corvette pace car nearly matching IndyCar speeds sounds exaggerated, until you look at the numbers.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-04 20:03:36


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!

Among a rather large group of them.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-04 13:56:44


VIEW MORE
story-7
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!

Slideshow: the top 10 things Corvette owners want in the C9 Corvette

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-30 12:41:15


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know

Slideshow: 10 Important Corvette 'firsts' that every fan should know.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 17:02:16


VIEW MORE
story-9
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

Slideshow: Should you buy a 2020-2026 Corvette or wait for 2027?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-22 10:08:58


VIEW MORE