C6 vs '69 427 L71?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 704
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From: Lexington KY
C6 vs '69 427 L71?
So I recently bought a nice low milage '05 C6 Z51 M6. It's my first Corvette and I've been dreaming of this day since I was a kid (I'm 27 now). When my dad was in his early 20's, he had a '69 C3 427 L71 M4. He only owned the car for a few years, and he regrets selling it even though he had reliability issues with it. It was sold before I was born, but I've always seen the pictures of it, heard stories about it, and wanted one just like it. I tried to talk my dad into going in 50/50 with me on a number matching restored one, but he declined so I ended up buying my C6. My reasoning was that if I was going to own a Corvette all to myself, I may as well make it my daily driver.
Anyway, the reason for this post is I'm wondering if anyone here has driven 2 cars similar to my vette and my dad's old vette. My dad says that mine is faster than his was, and I'm sure that the stock 1/4 mile times for a C6 are faster, but I wonder how much of that is due to better tires and more gears. I'm VERY happy with my purchase and wouldn't change a thing, but I'm still curious what it would be like to drive that old 427 C3!
Anyway, the reason for this post is I'm wondering if anyone here has driven 2 cars similar to my vette and my dad's old vette. My dad says that mine is faster than his was, and I'm sure that the stock 1/4 mile times for a C6 are faster, but I wonder how much of that is due to better tires and more gears. I'm VERY happy with my purchase and wouldn't change a thing, but I'm still curious what it would be like to drive that old 427 C3!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Lexington KY
Oh I've stood still and stared at just about every kind of vette ever made... old cars just have a certain personality about them that even today's best cars can't match. That's generally true about vettes and every other kind of car. My question is strictly about the pull of the motor... how do they compare? The only vette I've actually driven hard besides mine was a C5 A4 convertible, and there was quite a bit of difference.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 61
From: Wichita KS
I traded a 2002 Corvette red/red/white Convertible for my 72 454 coupe and I have never regretted it. Especially when I watch the value of the 72 go up as the value of the C5 drops like a rock in water.
Besides, you can't get the muscle car sound from the new Corvettes since they changed the firing order to "smooth it out".
The new Corvettes are loads of fun and very comfortable so drive it until the warranty is about to expire then get your C3. You will need a very high paying job to afford repairs on the new cars.
My 2002 had 11 computers in it and they don't fix them, they replace them. In the last 6 months I had my C5 I had to have the ABS controller ($1200) and the water pump ($400) replaced.
cc
Besides, you can't get the muscle car sound from the new Corvettes since they changed the firing order to "smooth it out".
The new Corvettes are loads of fun and very comfortable so drive it until the warranty is about to expire then get your C3. You will need a very high paying job to afford repairs on the new cars.
My 2002 had 11 computers in it and they don't fix them, they replace them. In the last 6 months I had my C5 I had to have the ABS controller ($1200) and the water pump ($400) replaced.
cc
Last edited by CCrane65; Mar 15, 2009 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Add background info
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
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From: Crossville TN
And you haven't even mentioned taxes and insurance costs on the new buggy compared to the C3's. I think my expense is a little under $200 per year for taxes and insurance. How's that stack up against a C6? The C6 is still a great car!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Lexington KY
Well... there are plenty advantages to the C3, but it would make an awful daily driver which is what I needed. The C6 is amazingly versatile. There aren't many cars that can be comfortable on the drive to work everyday and outrun exotics on the local race track on weekends. Maybe I'll get a C3 as a toy sometime down the road, but it just wasn't the right decision for me unless I wanted to buy an inexpensive beater for a daily driver.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
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From: Taylor Michigan
They were all better when new and as they get older become more unreliable. Its the nature of the game in fact any game. ...
Which one would you rather drive non stop across the country, the new one or the old one? Honesty is required not sentiment...
My reply is only when new..
Which one would you rather drive non stop across the country, the new one or the old one? Honesty is required not sentiment...
My reply is only when new..
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I bought an 05 Z51 6 speed brand new in 2004. It was the most problematic car I ever owned. It was an electrical nightmare that GM bought back from me.
As far as power. The C6 is faster than my big block. It would blow it away with the AC and CD player going while getting 28 MPG.
The old cars are just more fun to drive.
As far as power. The C6 is faster than my big block. It would blow it away with the AC and CD player going while getting 28 MPG.
The old cars are just more fun to drive.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
From: SAN FRANCISCO CA
to get back to your original question.... your would outperform you'r dad's in every which way possible. BUT, the fact still remains that there's NOTHING like cruising the highway in an ole' BB 69. the experience is more raw and unrefined which is in many ways desireable. that being said, it's nice to have the performance and creature-comforts of a modern car every now and then. next time you go to a show n' shine, buddy up with someone that has an old BB and suggest a traded cruise... it'll be a good experience for the both of you!
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Let's see... cruisin' the U.S. highways is 'cushy' luxury and with a high-quality, 6-speaker stereo... 
OR ...in a BB C3 with ZZ-top crankin' it out. 
Hmmmm... I think I know which way I'd choose. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,100
Likes: 12
From: Frederick Maryland
It's really not a fair comparison...the advances in automotive technology and engineering in forty years makes such comparisons moot, as fun as they might be. A C6 is much smoother, faster, better handling, more comfortable, better fuel economy, etc.
All that being said, my '69 L71 is a beast...and no C6 (at least no factory C6) can make that claim!
All that being said, my '69 L71 is a beast...and no C6 (at least no factory C6) can make that claim!
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 29
Likes: 1
From: Commerce Twp. Michigan
So I recently bought a nice low milage '05 C6 Z51 M6. It's my first Corvette and I've been dreaming of this day since I was a kid (I'm 27 now). When my dad was in his early 20's, he had a '69 C3 427 L71 M4. He only owned the car for a few years, and he regrets selling it even though he had reliability issues with it. It was sold before I was born, but I've always seen the pictures of it, heard stories about it, and wanted one just like it. I tried to talk my dad into going in 50/50 with me on a number matching restored one, but he declined so I ended up buying my C6. My reasoning was that if I was going to own a Corvette all to myself, I may as well make it my daily driver.
Anyway, the reason for this post is I'm wondering if anyone here has driven 2 cars similar to my vette and my dad's old vette. My dad says that mine is faster than his was, and I'm sure that the stock 1/4 mile times for a C6 are faster, but I wonder how much of that is due to better tires and more gears. I'm VERY happy with my purchase and wouldn't change a thing, but I'm still curious what it would be like to drive that old 427 C3!
Anyway, the reason for this post is I'm wondering if anyone here has driven 2 cars similar to my vette and my dad's old vette. My dad says that mine is faster than his was, and I'm sure that the stock 1/4 mile times for a C6 are faster, but I wonder how much of that is due to better tires and more gears. I'm VERY happy with my purchase and wouldn't change a thing, but I'm still curious what it would be like to drive that old 427 C3!
I have driven both cars extensively and the C6 is quicker, faster and handles better than the C3. The C6 has better much gearing C6 has six gears and the C3 only has 4. To get the first gear multiplication you must multiply the first gear ratio by the rear end ratio. For the C6 Z51 this is 2.97*3.42=10.16. The C3 with a 4.11 gives 2.2*4.11=9.04. For a 4.56 rear the C3 would have a 10.03. On the subject of power your C6 LS2 has 400 net horsepower. The C3 435 hp was rated in gross horsepower. Believe it or not, to reconcile gross and net horsepower and torque you need to debit the 435 hp by as much as 30%. Since the percentage difference between the two ratings is only 9% your C6 clearly has more power too. Torque of the C6-LS2 is 400 ft*lbs, the 435-L71 is 460 ft*lbs, a difference of 16%. Again, way below the 30% debit that would need to be applied to reconcile gross to net for the C3. I have not even discussed the need to tune the C3 to get these power and torque numbers. The C6 will run perfectly every day. I hope this helps, enjoy your car!
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 61
From: Wichita KS
I have driven both cars extensively and the C6 is quicker, faster and handles better than the C3. The C6 has better much gearing C6 has six gears and the C3 only has 4. To get the first gear multiplication you must multiply the first gear ratio by the rear end ratio. For the C6 Z51 this is 2.97*3.42=10.16. The C3 with a 4.11 gives 2.2*4.11=9.04. For a 4.56 rear the C3 would have a 10.03. On the subject of power your C6 LS2 has 400 net horsepower. The C3 435 hp was rated in gross horsepower. Believe it or not, to reconcile gross and net horsepower and torque you need to debit the 435 hp by as much as 30%. Since the percentage difference between the two ratings is only 9% your C6 clearly has more power too. Torque of the C6-LS2 is 400 ft*lbs, the 435-L71 is 460 ft*lbs, a difference of 16%. Again, way below the 30% debit that would need to be applied to reconcile gross to net for the C3. I have not even discussed the need to tune the C3 to get these power and torque numbers. The C6 will run perfectly every day. I hope this helps, enjoy your car!
My C5's water pump failed at 26000 miles and the ABS control Module failed at 20000.
And we won't even mention the column lock issue that so many of us have had.
There are a lot of people who drove/drive their C3's daily with little or no problems. I read about one who lives in Detroit.
cc
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 150
From: York PA
It's really not a fair comparison...the advances in automotive technology and engineering in forty years makes such comparisons moot, as fun as they might be. A C6 is much smoother, faster, better handling, more comfortable, better fuel economy, etc.
All that being said, my '69 L71 is a beast...and no C6 (at least no factory C6) can make that claim!
All that being said, my '69 L71 is a beast...and no C6 (at least no factory C6) can make that claim!
Same as L79's, LT1's, ol' fuelie cars, etc. So many great muscle cars from different time periods but I would put a C6Z06 and the new ZR1 in beast categories. To the poster, as many have stated your car beats your Dad's car in every way, but "Old cars" just do something for many of us even if its just memories.
Enjoy the car and congratulations.....
Your a lucky fellow
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 29
Likes: 1
From: Commerce Twp. Michigan
You cannot guarantee the C6 will run perfectly everyday.
My C5's water pump failed at 26000 miles and the ABS control Module failed at 20000.
And we won't even mention the column lock issue that so many of us have had.
There are a lot of people who drove/drive their C3's daily with little or no problems. I read about one who lives in Detroit.
cc
My C5's water pump failed at 26000 miles and the ABS control Module failed at 20000.
And we won't even mention the column lock issue that so many of us have had.
There are a lot of people who drove/drive their C3's daily with little or no problems. I read about one who lives in Detroit.
cc
We could debate possible failure modes like broken water pumps, failed ABS modules and column lock issues that should keep any reasonable person off of a race track.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 61
From: Wichita KS
My point was simple, statistically speaking, the C6's ECM will always keep it in better tune than is possible with the C3 and thus it will run closer to the advertised performance specs than the C3.
We could debate possible failure modes like broken water pumps, failed ABS modules and column lock issues that should keep any reasonable person off of a race track.
We could debate possible failure modes like broken water pumps, failed ABS modules and column lock issues that should keep any reasonable person off of a race track.
Now you need to worry about your brakes failing and about their controller failing. We still have the same systems as before but now they are controlled by electronics that control multiple systems, i.e., the ABS control module also controls the traction control and the anti-skid.
The body control module controls a whole bunch of things you wouldn't associate with the word "Body" such as the sound system.
And the radio controls your Driver Information Center, door chimes, accessory customization and retained accessory power among other things.
There's no question these things are infinitely more efficient and they are also infinitely more complex. In 20 years restoring one will be impossible. Who's going to repro those modules?
I'm just saying...
cc
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
back in '01-'03 I had a '01 convertible 6-speed that ran a 13.20 quarter from the factory, and a '70 BB 4speed convertible... maybe mid 14's in the quarter. the '01 would run circles around the '70... so yes the newer technology is nice...
but, then bottom line is I sold my '01 after buying it new, paying sales tax, depreciation, luxury tax.. and selling it.. it cost me $17000 to drive it for 32 months... it came out to around 500 per month to have a non daily driver in the garage.
yes I would take it for long trips when the farthest I would take the '70 was about 50 miles.. but I kept the 70 after selling the 01..... sold it 2 years ago and bought another 70....
but, then bottom line is I sold my '01 after buying it new, paying sales tax, depreciation, luxury tax.. and selling it.. it cost me $17000 to drive it for 32 months... it came out to around 500 per month to have a non daily driver in the garage.
yes I would take it for long trips when the farthest I would take the '70 was about 50 miles.. but I kept the 70 after selling the 01..... sold it 2 years ago and bought another 70....