GM Documentation rumors... True?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,157
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From: Pensacola FLA
I too wonder what the hold up is. What makes the documents for the C2 and early C3 cars any different than the documents released for the later cars?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 6
From: Nevada City California
No, I don't think so. There were a couple of issues that needed to be sorted out awhile back. One has been resolved, I believe it will happen here in the not too distant future.
I will say that those special hi-performance models without factory docs for proof of option and those with questionable features will be in for a possible shock when they are made available to the enthusiast.
I will say that those special hi-performance models without factory docs for proof of option and those with questionable features will be in for a possible shock when they are made available to the enthusiast.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,447
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From: Syracuse NY
Can you imagine what would happen if there was GM documents that proved absolutely all the counterfeit's.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Barrington IL
Le Mans Master
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From: Chattanooga TN
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Massillon,Ohio USA
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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...there is documentation on the C2s/early C3s. Has been for years. "Certain" people have had it for years. I witnessed it first hand and this is the last thing I'm going to say about it.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Wichita KS
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 418
From: Chester Virginia
I would think once GM gets over the bankrupcy that is coming the Corvette records and other cars will 'flow out' in quantities. Any legal issues about what was made will be mute since that GM does not exist anymore. I for one, would love to have documentation on my Corvette.
Roger
Roger
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 507
Likes: 5
From: Seattle WA
This is what I've thought for years...Although, weeding out the fakes will absolutely increase the value of "real" cars, that is, the high option / high horse cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2009
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That would open a huge can of worms once owners began suing the PO for fraud after the sale. PO says this $110K-something car originally had factory options A, B, C, D but then current owner gets these ancient GM docs for his car that now says there was no B, C, or D assembled on said VIN of the car when it left factory. How far back does the fraud litigation go, too, since many cars have exchanged any number of hands over the years? Law suits like this could get very messy and also drag some innocent victims into court who can only go by what the PO seller told them was original to that VIN, barring those POs were telling the truth? To increase the risk of further complication, how accurate were GM's documents for every vehicle which left the various factories 30 or 40 years ago?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,101
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From: Cruising somewhere in St. Louis, Missouri
That would open a huge can of worms once owners began suing the PO for fraud after the sale. PO says this $110K-something car originally had factory options A, B, C, D but then current owner gets these ancient GM docs for his car that now says there was no B, C, or D assembled on said VIN of the car when it left factory. How far back does the fraud litigation go, too, since many cars have exchanged any number of hands over the years? Law suits like this could get very messy and also drag some innocent victims into court who can only go by what the PO seller told them was original to that VIN, barring those POs were telling the truth? To increase the risk of further complication, how accurate were GM's documents for every vehicle which left the various factories 30 or 40 years ago?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
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From: Indy Indiana
That's why cars are sold 'AS IS'. Do you think a judge is going to listen to a argument regarding whether a car had power steering or not from the factory and the subsequent damage claim? and is it knowledge that the PO did or should have known? lawyers are great at bullying and threatening, but bottom line, could you win a case like that?
Is this info correct?
Racer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 331
Likes: 1
From: Brooklin Ontario
GM Canada does keep detailed records dating back to 1946. They can get you original key codes for your GM back to then. I have a GM letter that documents what dealer the car was shipped to and which options the car came with. This all was provided by the vehicle VIN. I have no doubt the records exist for USA, just a matter of organizing and releasing the info.
Later, Rog.
I should add my car is a 69 L86 and Canadian car originally sold out of Montreal. The options list shows I should have power sterring , which I do not. All the rest is OK including rear defog which would make sense for a car sold out of Montreal. When I get home I will scan and post the document and that should start a document authenticity debate. It is signed and I'm sure someone out there will be able to ID the signer which is also printed. The name escapes me. I will post when I get home.
Later, Rog.
I should add my car is a 69 L86 and Canadian car originally sold out of Montreal. The options list shows I should have power sterring , which I do not. All the rest is OK including rear defog which would make sense for a car sold out of Montreal. When I get home I will scan and post the document and that should start a document authenticity debate. It is signed and I'm sure someone out there will be able to ID the signer which is also printed. The name escapes me. I will post when I get home.
Last edited by AvRog; May 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM. Reason: add
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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.........I have no doubt the records exist for USA, just a matter of organizing and releasing the info.......
.......... When I get home I will scan and post the document and that should start a document authenticity debate. It is signed and I'm sure someone out there will be able to ID the signer which is also printed. The name escapes me. I will post when I get home.
.......... When I get home I will scan and post the document and that should start a document authenticity debate. It is signed and I'm sure someone out there will be able to ID the signer which is also printed. The name escapes me. I will post when I get home.
Why would there be a debate- that's what his records show.
PS- I guess you're new. The US records have been MIA for decades despite an intensive search for them fully approved and supported by GM themselves.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,821
Likes: 204
From: Lincoln CA
Yeah, fires and old car records go together like tornados and trailer parks alright. What's the old gag about what do tornadors and divorce have in common? They're the two most common ways for a redneck to lose his trailer......but I digress.
Think of all the fun it would spoil for the experts if the GM records for the early Corvette production were somehow resurected. I believe that, despite who first faked a car, the guy who sold it to you is liable to you. He had a duty to do the necessary verification prior to selling it as a valuable special model. He might have a basis of action against the individual who sold it to him, and so on. This all assumes that the particular option would cause you to spend a substantial amount more to buy the car. I seriously doubt whether any court would hear a case over a car not having power steering originally but alleged to have been so equipped by the prior owner. Now, a big block vs. a small block or an L-88, that's a reasonably actionable issue.
Hey, I can write in legalese! Another foreign language mastered!
Think of all the fun it would spoil for the experts if the GM records for the early Corvette production were somehow resurected. I believe that, despite who first faked a car, the guy who sold it to you is liable to you. He had a duty to do the necessary verification prior to selling it as a valuable special model. He might have a basis of action against the individual who sold it to him, and so on. This all assumes that the particular option would cause you to spend a substantial amount more to buy the car. I seriously doubt whether any court would hear a case over a car not having power steering originally but alleged to have been so equipped by the prior owner. Now, a big block vs. a small block or an L-88, that's a reasonably actionable issue.
Hey, I can write in legalese! Another foreign language mastered!