"Early" Versus "Late"
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,363
Likes: 303
From: Lansdale 19446 PA
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '10-'11, '15, '19
"Early" Versus "Late"
I have seen this topic many times on the C3 General section & think it would be a bonus to have a "General" discussion. I have 3 - C3's and each has their "Early" and "Late" components.
I would like to hear others opinions about what designated Early or Late.
My Opinion/observation: I do not think there is an Exact date for any year that designates a car early or late. It is not model year specific but rather part specific. When, during a specific model year, did the part change?
Example - Relative to the radiator support on my 76, it is an "Early". Later 76 models had 77 model year parts - so my 76 can't be a late AND an early.
It is relative to that specific part. Change orders came down but were not put into place until the existing stock ran out. It could have been in the beginning of a production run, in the middle or at the end.
Add to that, the beginning of a model year finishing off the prior years parts and the end of a model year running out of specific parts & using the next years parts.
They did all this to keep us on our toes!
I would like to hear others opinions about what designated Early or Late.
My Opinion/observation: I do not think there is an Exact date for any year that designates a car early or late. It is not model year specific but rather part specific. When, during a specific model year, did the part change?
Example - Relative to the radiator support on my 76, it is an "Early". Later 76 models had 77 model year parts - so my 76 can't be a late AND an early.
It is relative to that specific part. Change orders came down but were not put into place until the existing stock ran out. It could have been in the beginning of a production run, in the middle or at the end.
Add to that, the beginning of a model year finishing off the prior years parts and the end of a model year running out of specific parts & using the next years parts.
They did all this to keep us on our toes!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 6
From: Nevada City California
I'll give you another example. 1971 model Corvettes would probably be considered early cars for those VIN examples that use side grilles, front grilles, tail light lenses, & exhaust tip styles like those of the 1970 model. Otherwise they probably would just be called a normal model.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,482
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Early and late usually refer to a specific running change. For your '76, the big change was the swap from the A6 compressor to the R4. "Early" cars had the A6; "late" cars had the R4. The change occurred in the spring of 1976.
The AIM can sometimes be helpful in determining running change dates provided revision dates appear on the page. You may see a notation with a date which says "Was 386521 bracket". Early cars would have had the 386521 bracket. Cars produced after the AIM page was revised probably had the new part call out on the page.
Rule of thumb only since new parts/procedures were being installed or in use before revised AIM pages made their way to St. Louis.
NCRS judging manuals are also handy for observed VINs for running changes.
The AIM can sometimes be helpful in determining running change dates provided revision dates appear on the page. You may see a notation with a date which says "Was 386521 bracket". Early cars would have had the 386521 bracket. Cars produced after the AIM page was revised probably had the new part call out on the page.
Rule of thumb only since new parts/procedures were being installed or in use before revised AIM pages made their way to St. Louis.
NCRS judging manuals are also handy for observed VINs for running changes.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,283
Likes: 4,373
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi,
My understanding is that early and late doesn't refer to a point in a production year but is rather a reference to whether or not the car has a part on it that changed during the production year.
Thus a part that changed during the first month of production would be on relativly few cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on many cars and those cars would be called late. A part that changed during the last month of production would be on many cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on relatively few cars and those cars would be called late.
So pre-change= early, and post-change= late. A car can have both early and late parts on it.
Regards,
Alan
My understanding is that early and late doesn't refer to a point in a production year but is rather a reference to whether or not the car has a part on it that changed during the production year.
Thus a part that changed during the first month of production would be on relativly few cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on many cars and those cars would be called late. A part that changed during the last month of production would be on many cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on relatively few cars and those cars would be called late.
So pre-change= early, and post-change= late. A car can have both early and late parts on it.
Regards,
Alan
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Hi,
My understanding is that early and late doesn't refer to a point in a production year but is rather a reference to whether or not the car has a part on it that changed during the production year.
Thus a part that changed during the first month of production would be on relativly few cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on many cars and those cars would be called late. A part that changed during the last month of production would be on many cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on relatively few cars and those cars would be called late.
So pre-change= early, and post-change= late. A car can have both early and late parts on it.
Regards,
Alan
My understanding is that early and late doesn't refer to a point in a production year but is rather a reference to whether or not the car has a part on it that changed during the production year.
Thus a part that changed during the first month of production would be on relativly few cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on many cars and those cars would be called late. A part that changed during the last month of production would be on many cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on relatively few cars and those cars would be called late.
So pre-change= early, and post-change= late. A car can have both early and late parts on it.
Regards,
Alan
Correct Alan. This is another question that gets asked frequently enough to be a sticky.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,363
Likes: 303
From: Lansdale 19446 PA
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '10-'11, '15, '19
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,821
Likes: 204
From: Lincoln CA
Ok, my 69 BB is a late build car (10/16/69) but it has a vacuum reservior for the windshield wiper door that is the shape of an oil filter (early) rather than the shape of two pie pans facing each other (late). The reservior seems to have the "patina" of an original part. When was the reservior style changed?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,977
Likes: 19
From: Canboro Ontario
Hi,
My understanding is that early and late doesn't refer to a point in a production year but is rather a reference to whether or not the car has a part on it that changed during the production year.
Thus a part that changed during the first month of production would be on relativly few cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on many cars and those cars would be called late. A part that changed during the last month of production would be on many cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on relatively few cars and those cars would be called late.
So pre-change= early, and post-change= late. A car can have both early and late parts on it.
Regards,
Alan
My understanding is that early and late doesn't refer to a point in a production year but is rather a reference to whether or not the car has a part on it that changed during the production year.
Thus a part that changed during the first month of production would be on relativly few cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on many cars and those cars would be called late. A part that changed during the last month of production would be on many cars in it's original form and those cars would be called early, the part with the change would be on relatively few cars and those cars would be called late.
So pre-change= early, and post-change= late. A car can have both early and late parts on it.
Regards,
Alan
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Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,283
Likes: 4,373
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi RT69,
The info I have indicates the 'canister' style has been seen as late as 729658 (AUG 69)and the 'pie-pan' style as early as 733001 (Sept69).
I'd think there was not a clean break from one style to the other, so your car wouldn't bother me at all.
Regards,
Alan
The info I have indicates the 'canister' style has been seen as late as 729658 (AUG 69)and the 'pie-pan' style as early as 733001 (Sept69).
I'd think there was not a clean break from one style to the other, so your car wouldn't bother me at all.
Regards,
Alan
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,683
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From: Shamong, NJ
This is something that always bothers me and I've responded to it before.
I try to use 1st and 2nd design (and sometimes 3rd, too) when refering to running model changes. This is how GM lists these changes in their parts books.
Parts were changed in production as a newer, cheaper, stronger or better part became available, and not usually at a certain date. In 76, the rear bumper cover (and small style emblem) was changed after only a couple months of production, the core support and radiator shroud were changed about the first of the year and the ac compressor wasn't changed until 9 or 10 months into production.
I try to use 1st and 2nd design (and sometimes 3rd, too) when refering to running model changes. This is how GM lists these changes in their parts books.
Parts were changed in production as a newer, cheaper, stronger or better part became available, and not usually at a certain date. In 76, the rear bumper cover (and small style emblem) was changed after only a couple months of production, the core support and radiator shroud were changed about the first of the year and the ac compressor wasn't changed until 9 or 10 months into production.
