Possibly the dumbest engine question
Le Mans Master
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ok guys, how about Ford? Clearly, a 260-289-302 is a small block. Clearly, a 429 is a big block. What about the 352-390-428CJ FE blocks? What about a 351 Cleveland? Back to the original post, is there a definitional difference besides "its bigger"? For instance, a 351 Cleavland vs. a 351 Windsor? Windsor bore & stroke is X:Y and Cleveland bore & stroke is Y:Z.
Jay
Jay
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From: Platteville WI
ok guys, how about Ford? Clearly, a 260-289-302 is a small block. Clearly, a 429 is a big block. What about the 352-390-428CJ FE blocks? What about a 351 Cleveland? Back to the original post, is there a definitional difference besides "its bigger"? For instance, a 351 Cleavland vs. a 351 Windsor? Windsor bore & stroke is X:Y and Cleveland bore & stroke is Y:Z.
Jay
Jay
Le Mans Master
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ok guys, how about Ford? Clearly, a 260-289-302 is a small block. Clearly, a 429 is a big block. What about the 352-390-428CJ FE blocks? What about a 351 Cleveland? Back to the original post, is there a definitional difference besides "its bigger"? For instance, a 351 Cleavland vs. a 351 Windsor? Windsor bore & stroke is X:Y and Cleveland bore & stroke is Y:Z.
Jay
Jay
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ok guys, how about Ford? Clearly, a 260-289-302 is a small block. Clearly, a 429 is a big block. What about the 352-390-428CJ FE blocks? What about a 351 Cleveland? Back to the original post, is there a definitional difference besides "its bigger"? For instance, a 351 Cleavland vs. a 351 Windsor? Windsor bore & stroke is X:Y and Cleveland bore & stroke is Y:Z.
Jay
Jay
352-390-428 are bb
Cleveland- bb
windsor-sb
All the big blocks weren't the same configuration.
Le Mans Master
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From: Santa Ana CA
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If you ever had a windsor vs a cleveland in an older mustang you wouldn't think the cleveland is a small block. It does share the smaller bell housing pattern though and motor mounts, but very few other parts.
Basically old Ford had 3 different size families of engines, not called small block or bb, that's just for Chevy guys.
I was wrong in calling them sb or bb.
Windsor (221/260/289/302/5.0L/351W/5.8L)
FE (mainly 390/428)
335 (351C/351M/400) (Cleveland, Modified)
385 (429/460)
BTW, Last year I sold my Pantera (Cleveland), that I had for over 35 years.
I always likes the clevelands.
Le Mans Master
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From: Santa Ana CA
If you ever had a windsor vs a cleveland in an older mustang you wouldn't think the cleveland is a small block. It does share the smaller bell housing pattern though and motor mounts, but very few other parts.
Basically old Ford had 3 different size families of engines, not called small block or bb, that's just for Chevy guys.
I was wrong in calling them sb or bb.
Windsor (221/260/289/302/5.0L/351W/5.8L)
FE (mainly 390/428)
335 (351C/351M/400) (Cleveland, Modified)
385 (429/460)
BTW, Last year I sold my Pantera (Cleveland), that I had for over 35 years.
I always likes the clevelands.
Basically old Ford had 3 different size families of engines, not called small block or bb, that's just for Chevy guys.
I was wrong in calling them sb or bb.
Windsor (221/260/289/302/5.0L/351W/5.8L)
FE (mainly 390/428)
335 (351C/351M/400) (Cleveland, Modified)
385 (429/460)
BTW, Last year I sold my Pantera (Cleveland), that I had for over 35 years.
I always likes the clevelands.
When the 351 Cleveland was withdrawn after the end of the 1974 model year, Ford needed another engine in the 351 cubic inch (5.8 L) class, since production of the 351 Windsor was not sufficient and the 390 FE was being retired as well. To replace the 390, Ford took the 400 engine's tall-deck block and de-stroked it with the shorter throw crankshaft from the 351 Windsor, and taller pistons, to produce a 351 cubic inch (5.8 L) engine whose components were largely compatible with the 400. This engine was called the 351M and as a back-formation the taller-deck block became known as the M-block.
If the Windsor crank fits the Cleveland block, they share the same bore spacing and are therefore both small blocks.
Instructor
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From: New Hartford Iowa
QUOTE=toddalin;1573277944]As I noted, it is the bore spacing. From Wikipedia:
When the 351 Cleveland was withdrawn after the end of the 1974 model year, Ford needed another engine in the 351 cubic inch (5.8 L) class, since production of the 351 Windsor was not sufficient and the 390 FE was being retired as well. To replace the 390, Ford took the 400 engine's tall-deck block and de-stroked it with the shorter throw crankshaft from the 351 Windsor, and taller pistons, to produce a 351 cubic inch (5.8 L) engine whose components were largely compatible with the 400. This engine was called the 351M and as a back-formation the taller-deck block became known as the M-block.
If the Windsor crank fits the Cleveland block, they share the same bore spacing and are therefore both small blocks.[/QUOTE]
Cleveland heads are much bigger than windsor heads which ceates the illusion of a bigger engine. Head size is an easy way to identify Chevrolet big blocks, but means nothing on the ford engines.
When the 351 Cleveland was withdrawn after the end of the 1974 model year, Ford needed another engine in the 351 cubic inch (5.8 L) class, since production of the 351 Windsor was not sufficient and the 390 FE was being retired as well. To replace the 390, Ford took the 400 engine's tall-deck block and de-stroked it with the shorter throw crankshaft from the 351 Windsor, and taller pistons, to produce a 351 cubic inch (5.8 L) engine whose components were largely compatible with the 400. This engine was called the 351M and as a back-formation the taller-deck block became known as the M-block.
If the Windsor crank fits the Cleveland block, they share the same bore spacing and are therefore both small blocks.[/QUOTE]
Cleveland heads are much bigger than windsor heads which ceates the illusion of a bigger engine. Head size is an easy way to identify Chevrolet big blocks, but means nothing on the ford engines.
