68' 427 ps problem, need help!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: wichita kansas
68' 427 ps problem, need help!
i am putting my 68' 427/390hp back together, still have body off of the frame. this is a power steering car without a/c.
i have all the pulleys and alternator, and power steering back on the car now. problem is: the power steering pulley does not line up with any of the other pulleys for belts! this car was missing most of these components when i bought it (basket case) so i have had to purchase all of these pulleys and brackets. the ps pulley is double groove that came from corvette central.
is it possible that i have the wrong pulley on ps? or possibly wrong ps pump? pump is rebuilt unit that is supposed to fit ALL 63-74 cars. is big block pump different?
the pulley is number CC 562312 (65-74 two groove big block)
the 2 groove water pump pulley lines up with the 2 groove crank pulley, and the alt pulley looks like it would line up with the second groove from these pulleys. BUT the water pump two groove pulley is FORWARD of all of these pulleys.....what the hell is wrong here?
wrong ps pump?
wrong ps pulley?
idiot mechanic? LOL........
anyone have pics of same set-up, or any ideas?????? thanks, Rick
i have all the pulleys and alternator, and power steering back on the car now. problem is: the power steering pulley does not line up with any of the other pulleys for belts! this car was missing most of these components when i bought it (basket case) so i have had to purchase all of these pulleys and brackets. the ps pulley is double groove that came from corvette central.
is it possible that i have the wrong pulley on ps? or possibly wrong ps pump? pump is rebuilt unit that is supposed to fit ALL 63-74 cars. is big block pump different?
the pulley is number CC 562312 (65-74 two groove big block)
the 2 groove water pump pulley lines up with the 2 groove crank pulley, and the alt pulley looks like it would line up with the second groove from these pulleys. BUT the water pump two groove pulley is FORWARD of all of these pulleys.....what the hell is wrong here?
wrong ps pump?
wrong ps pulley?
idiot mechanic? LOL........
anyone have pics of same set-up, or any ideas?????? thanks, Rick
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Huntersville NC
start with this for configuration (from the AIM), but it doesn't show how the parts are actually supposed to line up. I also have a 68 L-36 with p/s and no A/C. My car is certainly not a benchmark vehicle, but I can take some pics at some point if you think it will help. In fact, at the moment I have a horrible belt squeal that needs some attention.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: wichita kansas
thanks for the response! i would LOVE to see some pics if you get a chance, especially in the ps pulley area.
according to diagram, it looks like there is a belt that runs from 1st groove crank pulley to 1st groove water pump pulley. is this true? how in the world would you ever keep it adjusted? i don't think i'm supposed to have a idler pulley on a non a/c car.......Rick
according to diagram, it looks like there is a belt that runs from 1st groove crank pulley to 1st groove water pump pulley. is this true? how in the world would you ever keep it adjusted? i don't think i'm supposed to have a idler pulley on a non a/c car.......Rick
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Huntersville NC
Mine is missing. Lots of discussion on this belt, like... why is it there? (somewhat redundant, to make it less likely to have waterpump failure) and techniques for changing - it is a bear to replace. I don't think it adjusts, the trick is to get it on at all.I have 2 belts only (no AIR pump)
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unfortunately, this is true Mine is missing. Lots of discussion on this belt, like... why is it there? (somewhat redundant, to make it less likely to have waterpump failure) and techniques for changing - it is a bear to replace. I don't think it adjusts, the trick is to get it on at all.
I have 2 belts only (no AIR pump)
Mine is missing. Lots of discussion on this belt, like... why is it there? (somewhat redundant, to make it less likely to have waterpump failure) and techniques for changing - it is a bear to replace. I don't think it adjusts, the trick is to get it on at all.I have 2 belts only (no AIR pump)
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,094
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From: Sierra Foothills CA
On my 69 427 the outer grooves of the water pump and crank pulleys line up with the inner groove of the power steering pump pulley- there's a belt on those that adjusts at the power steering pump and barely makes it over the pulleys into place. The adjustment is NOT fun and requires 2 guys to do it right. One needs to be on top prying on the pump to tighten the belt while the guy under the car tightens the 2 bolts for the power steering pump. The other belt runs from the outer power steering pump groove to the alternator. I have no smog pump. I hope that helps. Let me know if you need pics. 
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: wichita kansas
thanks everyone! and YES< i could use pics. there is definitely a problem with the placement on my ps pulley....both grooves are FORWARD of any other pulley grooves! i either have the wrong pulley or the wrong ps pump? i don't know which. it is like the "offset" on the ps pulley is not deep enough to allow it to be in the right positon. it is probably at least an inch forward of the other pulleys! thanks again, Rick
capevettes, you say you have had to replace your ps pump a lot recently...the small block and bb pump are the same correct?
capevettes, you say you have had to replace your ps pump a lot recently...the small block and bb pump are the same correct?
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
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From: Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin
Here is my 69 427 with aftermarket air. The air uses the 3rd groove, but everything else could be the same. I use the back groove on the crank and wp for one belt (no adjustment). That belt is redundant as the Crank, WP, PS belt also drives the water pump, but they way I look at it, the water pump is one thing that needs to run even if a different belt breaks.
NAPA 7315 25/64 X 32-1/8" Crank to Water pump
NAPA 7460 13/32 X 46-5/8" Water Pump to Air Conditioner
NAPA 7440 13/32 X 44-5/8" Crank, Water Pump, Power steering
Gates 7300 3/8" X 30-5/8" Power Steering to Alternator
NAPA 7315 25/64 X 32-1/8" Crank to Water pump
NAPA 7460 13/32 X 46-5/8" Water Pump to Air Conditioner
NAPA 7440 13/32 X 44-5/8" Crank, Water Pump, Power steering
Gates 7300 3/8" X 30-5/8" Power Steering to Alternator
Last edited by RobRace10; May 15, 2010 at 07:48 PM.
Le Mans Master
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From: Gladstone MO
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RobRace has the same setup I have (less the A/C). Several of Chevy's HP stuff in the late 60's early 70's had that captured belt. I think their idea was that high RPM could toss the belts, but they wanted to insure the water pump stayed with you. some of the 427/430 and 435's, some of the Z-28's had that little thing installed at the factory.
Team Owner
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From: Crossville TN
With that setup that PRNDL circled in that drawing, there are three belts drawing power from the fan pulley, plus the water pump is absorbing power from same system: AIR pump & P/S pump [directly] and generator [indirectly]. To deliver all that power to the fan pulley (without slipping), it takes two belts. The non-adjustable belt is installed first by loosening the nuts on the fan pulley, putting the belt in place in the grooves on upper and lower pulley, then tightening the nuts back up. That draws the belt tight. The rest you know how to set up.
If the rear groove on the P/S pulley does not line up with the front groove on the fan pulley, you will have to put spacers on the bolts to move the P/S pump forward, OR alter the brackets so that the P/S pump will mount further rearward when mounted to the engine. Are you sure you have the correct P/S mounting brackets for the setup you have? The AIM will detail exactly what you need, but you may have to dig into the drawings for the N40 P/S option and/or the engine option that you have; it may not be the same as the 'base' bracket design.
If the rear groove on the P/S pulley does not line up with the front groove on the fan pulley, you will have to put spacers on the bolts to move the P/S pump forward, OR alter the brackets so that the P/S pump will mount further rearward when mounted to the engine. Are you sure you have the correct P/S mounting brackets for the setup you have? The AIM will detail exactly what you need, but you may have to dig into the drawings for the N40 P/S option and/or the engine option that you have; it may not be the same as the 'base' bracket design.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: wichita kansas
yes, i'm sure that the ps steering brackets and alt brackets are correct. i actually bought a package for this from CC and they all bolted up nicely, and the alt mounted up correctly. the ps pump also mounted up nicely. either the power steering front shaft is incorrect causing the pulley to be too far forward (but from what i understand, all of these OEM style ps pumps for that era are pretty much the same) OR the ps pulley is not correct, and is not lining up with the rest of the pulleys. i will try to get some pics of what i am talking about and post them. i do appreciate all of the feedback so far! KEEP IT COMING, cuz i am still lost. LOL,,, Rick
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: wichita kansas
ok, after another bud light.......LOL UPDATE! it appears that the ps pulley and pump are in the correct position and the rear groove on the ps pumd DOES line up with front groove on water pump and crank pulley. ( i was confused about belt routing, and also didn't have ps pump snugged down in position)
anyway....the thing that was really throwing me off was the alt pulley and the position it was in in relation to the other pulleys. there is supposed to be a belt running from forward ps pulley groove to the alt pulley, and they don't line up at ALL, the alt pulley groove is back over an inch.....soooooooooo, apparently i have the wrong alternator on the car. good news is, this is a MUCH easier fix! i will post pics tomorrow, but thanks for bearing with me, and helping me chase this down! Rick
anyway....the thing that was really throwing me off was the alt pulley and the position it was in in relation to the other pulleys. there is supposed to be a belt running from forward ps pulley groove to the alt pulley, and they don't line up at ALL, the alt pulley groove is back over an inch.....soooooooooo, apparently i have the wrong alternator on the car. good news is, this is a MUCH easier fix! i will post pics tomorrow, but thanks for bearing with me, and helping me chase this down! Rick
Le Mans Master
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It may be the alternator is correct, just has the wrong pulley on it. RobRace's picture doesn't show it, but IIRC behind the groove in the alternator pulley is about 3/4 inches of built in spacer. I know my 69 has a different pulley than the off-the-shelf rebuilt alternators and is different than the 77. It's also a slightly larger diameter than the 77's is.
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thanks everyone! and YES< i could use pics. there is definitely a problem with the placement on my ps pulley....both grooves are FORWARD of any other pulley grooves! i either have the wrong pulley or the wrong ps pump? i don't know which. it is like the "offset" on the ps pulley is not deep enough to allow it to be in the right positon. it is probably at least an inch forward of the other pulleys! thanks again, Rick
capevettes, you say you have had to replace your ps pump a lot recently...the small block and bb pump are the same correct?
capevettes, you say you have had to replace your ps pump a lot recently...the small block and bb pump are the same correct?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
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From: Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin
There are different PS pump pulleys and the alt pulleys.
Here is a picture with the wrong PS pulley and wrong alt pulley.
This is a picture that has the correct PS and alt pulley, but this was my first attempt at getting the belts on, NOT THE FINAL SETUP as you can see I ran didn't have the crank, ps, wp belt on correctly! The Hot Rod Air needed to come forward about an 1", apparently they never actually installed one so had the spacing wrong. I do not have a final setup picture.
Last edited by RobRace10; May 16, 2010 at 08:09 AM.
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I know there was also a difference in the PS pump neck. My original pump had an angled neck and my replacement was straight. I had a lot of issues getting enough space to be able to unscrew the cap once the new pump was in place. I had to do some shimming to get enough room to remove the cap.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: wichita kansas
ok, i got some pics last night, take a look and let me know what you think. the ps pulley seems to be ok, but the alternator pulley DOES NOT line up with the forward groove on ps pulley (where the belt goes)
i'm guessing, i either have the wrong alternator, or as someone here suggested(thanks) that i need to change the pulley on the alt. where would i get the correct pulley for the alternator, has anyone else run into this issue before? the alternator pulley actually lines up with the power steering belt at this point! thanks, Rick
i'm guessing, i either have the wrong alternator, or as someone here suggested(thanks) that i need to change the pulley on the alt. where would i get the correct pulley for the alternator, has anyone else run into this issue before? the alternator pulley actually lines up with the power steering belt at this point! thanks, Rick
Melting Slicks
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You definitely have the wrong alternator pulley. Mine is probably original, but the alternator is not correct. I know I switched pulleys from the old alternator, which was also not correct.
I see where Paragon sells an alternator pulley #1648 for $37. Description reads 3-5/8" O.D., zinc plated for 1966-1971 w/427, 454 & P/S.
Their #1651 pulley is for w/o P/S and is probably similar to what you have now.
I see where Paragon sells an alternator pulley #1648 for $37. Description reads 3-5/8" O.D., zinc plated for 1966-1971 w/427, 454 & P/S.
Their #1651 pulley is for w/o P/S and is probably similar to what you have now.